Turkey shoots down Russian aircraft.

Oberon · 11-30-15, 03:11 PM

Admittedly Putins claim is a bit more likely than Frogfoots from space, but after the debacle that was the response to the downing of MH17 I trust word from the Kremlin as much as I do from Ankara. As Skybird put it, they both lie.

Then again, they are politicians...

mapuc · 11-30-15, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Admittedly Putins claim is a bit more likely than Frogfoots from space, but after the debacle that was the response to the downing of MH17 I trust word from the Kremlin as much as I do from Ankara. As Skybird put it, they both lie.

Then again, they are politicians...

Agree If Mr Putin have these claims then he should provide the rest of the world with 100 % solid evidence and not some loose accusation.

Markus

Bilge_Rat · 11-30-15, 04:08 PM

I wonder why he is making that claim though. He sort loses whatever goodwill he gained in the West from the downing of the jet by making such dubious correlations.

I wonder if that is aimed at his domestic audience, maybe our Russian friends could comment.

Catfish · 11-30-15, 04:29 PM

^ Huh? What do you mean?

It is well known that Erdoghan supports Daesh, not officially of course. It is not Turkey per se, but his Erd. clan who does this very special business. And Erdoghan is trying to turn Turkey into a dictatorship, he suppresses the media and kills or imprisons anyone who dares to speak up against him. Make no mistake, Erdoghan is an egomanic dictator.

Erdoghan is against Assad, and he also is against the Kurds. Gassing Kurds back then together with Saddam, anyone remembers?
So Erdoghan of course suppports Daesh, they are no real threat against Turkey currently, since Erdoghan pays them for the oil delivered via those convoys; and what's more, Daesh kills Kurds.
So when Russia attacks some of those convoys with turkish drivers doing business for Erd., what do you think he will do?
Well, we just saw it.
I just wonder what "the West" does, down there. Obviously NOT attacking Daesh oil transports, at least we do not hear anything about that, not even propaganda (yet).
And if some lone crazy martyr not knowing the facts who lost his way explodes himself in Istanbul, it of course was a "kurdish" assassination (ask Erdgohan).

B.t.w. alot of turkish people are against Erdoghan, but any demonstration or critic is being suppressed. Turkey is on a very bad way, and no one should ever support this man. It makes me vomit to see Erdoghan being invited and flattered by european politicians. He is NOT the man who protects the West from Daesh.
We should first kick him out of Nato, take away any chance to join the EU, and then send him to Putin, personally, and alone.
And with another government and state of mind, we can then think of getting Turkey aboard. Later.

[/rant]

Bilge_Rat · 11-30-15, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

We should first kick him out of Nato,

Not sure about that, if the Turks are crazy enough to confront the Russians head on, they could prove useful allies if we ever do get into a "Hot" war.

mapuc · 11-30-15, 06:34 PM

If I remember correctly Putin said they are not going to start a war because of this, but what if Turkey sees these things Russia has implemented to wards Turkey as an act of war or trying to make Turkey to fire the next shot.

Edit these implemented things Russia has made to wards Turkey must be some kind of economical warfare

Markus

Oberon · 11-30-15, 10:04 PM

Nah, I doubt Erdogan would go that far for the next step, the next step is likely to be either Russia knocking down a Turkish jet that is stupid enough to wander into Syrian airspace, or the Turkmen forces suddenly becoming equipped with M48 tanks and Turkish SAMs and Anti-aircraft guns.

August · 11-30-15, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

I just wonder what "the West" does, down there. Obviously NOT attacking Daesh oil transports, at least we do not hear anything about that, not even propaganda (yet).

Actually they have...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/wo...-oil.html?_r=0

ikalugin · 12-01-15, 09:27 AM

The oil truck thing is actually fairly competetive now. Both Russia and Western Coalition bomb that stuff now.

Schroeder · 12-01-15, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

The oil truck thing is actually fairly competetive now. Both Russia and Western Coalition bomb that stuff now.

It's about high time.

But DAESH has also other means of making money. German journalists discovered that they are selling slaves (mainly Yazidi women) to whoever wants them. The deals are often arranged in Turkey while the Turkish secret service looks the other way.

EU membership candidate my arm!!!
It makes me want to throw up when I see how our politicians still court these gangsters.

11-30-15, 04:08 PM	#3
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	I wonder why he is making that claim though. He sort loses whatever goodwill he gained in the West from the downing of the jet by making such dubious correlations. I wonder if that is aimed at his domestic audience, maybe our Russian friends could comment. __________________

11-30-15, 04:29 PM	#4
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,803 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ Huh? What do you mean? It is well known that Erdoghan supports Daesh, not officially of course. It is not Turkey per se, but his Erd. clan who does this very special business. And Erdoghan is trying to turn Turkey into a dictatorship, he suppresses the media and kills or imprisons anyone who dares to speak up against him. Make no mistake, Erdoghan is an egomanic dictator. Erdoghan is against Assad, and he also is against the Kurds. Gassing Kurds back then together with Saddam, anyone remembers? So Erdoghan of course suppports Daesh, they are no real threat against Turkey currently, since Erdoghan pays them for the oil delivered via those convoys; and what's more, Daesh kills Kurds. So when Russia attacks some of those convoys with turkish drivers doing business for Erd., what do you think he will do? Well, we just saw it. I just wonder what "the West" does, down there. Obviously NOT attacking Daesh oil transports, at least we do not hear anything about that, not even propaganda (yet). And if some lone crazy martyr not knowing the facts who lost his way explodes himself in Istanbul, it of course was a "kurdish" assassination (ask Erdgohan). B.t.w. alot of turkish people are against Erdoghan, but any demonstration or critic is being suppressed. Turkey is on a very bad way, and no one should ever support this man. It makes me vomit to see Erdoghan being invited and flattered by european politicians. He is NOT the man who protects the West from Daesh. We should first kick him out of Nato, take away any chance to join the EU, and then send him to Putin, personally, and alone. And with another government and state of mind, we can then think of getting Turkey aboard. Later. [/rant] __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 11-30-15 at 04:35 PM.*

12-01-15, 09:27 AM	#9
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	The oil truck thing is actually fairly competetive now. Both Russia and Western Coalition bomb that stuff now. __________________ Grumpy as always.

11-30-15, 03:11 PM	#1
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Admittedly Putins claim is a bit more likely than Frogfoots from space, but after the debacle that was the response to the downing of MH17 I trust word from the Kremlin as much as I do from Ankara. As Skybird put it, they both lie. Then again, they are politicians...

11-30-15, 06:34 PM	#6
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,565 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	If I remember correctly Putin said they are not going to start a war because of this, but what if Turkey sees these things Russia has implemented to wards Turkey as an act of war or trying to make Turkey to fire the next shot. Edit these implemented things Russia has made to wards Turkey must be some kind of economical warfare Markus

11-30-15, 10:04 PM	#7
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Nah, I doubt Erdogan would go that far for the next step, the next step is likely to be either Russia knocking down a Turkish jet that is stupid enough to wander into Syrian airspace, or the Turkmen forces suddenly becoming equipped with M48 tanks and Turkish SAMs and Anti-aircraft guns.