Turkey shoots down Russian aircraft.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Dan D

I heard on the radio that Turkey sees itsself as the protecting power for the Turkmen minority living in Syria.

There have been attacks lately by Assad troops with Russian air support against the Turkmen, who oppose the Assad regime.

A Turkmen leader was quoted saying they could fight Assad's troops successfully like they did in the past but that they can do nothing against the Russian air strikes.

So it seems that Turkey shot down the aircraft to show Russia that it does not tolerate actions against Turkmen in Syria.

Btw, no one seems to care about the Kurdish people in this conflict who live as minorities in Turkey, Syria, Iran and Irak. They are stuck between hammer and amboss.

Well thought post Dan D ... you would make a good news reporter on CNN

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Dan D

I heard on the radio that Turkey sees itsself as the protecting power for the Turkmen minority living in Syria.

There have been attacks lately by Assad troops with Russian air support against the Turkmen, who oppose the Assad regime.

A Turkmen leader was quoted saying they could fight Assad's troops successfully like they did in the past but that they can do nothing against the Russian air strikes.

So it seems that Turkey shot down the aircraft to show Russia that it does not tolerate actions against Turkmen in Syria.

Btw, no one seems to care about the Kurdish people in this conflict who live as minorities in Turkey, Syria, Iran and Irak. They are stuck between hammer and amboss.

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Well thought post Dan D ... you would make a good news reporter on CNN

An Islamic 'Balkanization'; as the Ottoman collapse precipitated the 'great enema' of WWI, the post-colonial Levantine/Middle East Balkanization is ON. WWIII is well started, only we just don't realize it yet.

[CaptainRamius]

Turkey has a huge problem on it's hands. Apparently, the Russian fighter was in Turkish Airspace for 17 seconds. And they shot it down, one pilot survived and one was killed by rebels. This is war.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

@Commander Wallace, I unfortunately don't have time to read all those articles you linked. Headlines in those links talk about "U.S. Air Defence Zone", is this same as nation's "airspace" or is it broader military term? Follow on question especially if answer is not "airspace" then how many times Russian aircraft have actually intruded into U.S. airspace?

Russian aircraft flying into Finnish airspace is relatively common occurence but usually (or atleast used to) happen over Gulf of Finland. Those are normally aircraft heading to/from Kaliningrad using corridor of international airspace between Finland and Estonia. Some of those intrusions maybe intentional some may not.

Russian however are not only ones making "navigation errors" or "mistakes" in route selection. Those reported in media have usually been about disrespect of demilitarized status of Aland Islands. Latest such incident (in my knowledge) was last year and culprit were U.S. Air Force C-17s.

[CaptainRamius]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

An Islamic 'Balkanization'; as the Ottoman collapse precipitated the 'great enema' of WWI, the post-colonial Levantine/Middle East Balkanization is ON. WWIII is well started, only we just don't realize it yet.

Yay. We could REALLY use a Third World War now, right?

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

@Commander Wallace, I unfortunately don't have time to read all those articles you linked. Headlines in those links talk about "U.S. Air Defence Zone", is this same as nation's "airspace" or is it broader military term? Follow on question especially if answer is not "airspace" then how many times Russian aircraft have actually intruded into U.S. airspace?

Russian aircraft flying into Finnish airspace is relatively common occurence but usually (or atleast used to) happen over Gulf of Finland. Those are normally aircraft heading to/from Kaliningrad using corridor of international airspace between Finland and Estonia. Some of those intrusions maybe intentional some may not.

Russian however are not only ones making "navigation errors" or "mistakes" in route selection. Those reported in media have usually been about disrespect of demilitarized status of Aland Islands. Latest such incident (in my knowledge) was last year and culprit were U.S. Air Force C-17s.

As I pointed out, a lot of nations do it , including the U.S . You didn't however mention the intrusions in U.K ,U.S and Canadian airspace . Russia violates Alaskan airspace on a regular basis. I'm sure the U.S probably returns the favor. I also indicated intrusions are not limited to airspace but territorial waters . Again, i think most nations with advanced submarines engage in the same intrusions.

I think the point was how Russia and other countries handle intrusions into their respective airspace. Other countries observe restraint and Russia probably does as well , just to a lesser extent.

[mapuc]

Your thoughts about what I have heard and read

In fact Turkey and Russia is at war with each other-they became two combatant the day Russia started to bomb terrorist groups and others fighting Assad-said by some expert on Danish news program

A Danish News paper have quoted some journalist on CNN

Saying: Are we in WWIII now ?

Minister of Defense in USA, say they heard these warnings to the pilots-The Russian pilot say they didn't get any warnings-Who's telling the truth ?

Markus

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Minister of Defense in USA, say they heard these warnings to the pilots-The Russian pilot say they didn't get any warnings-Who's telling the truth ?

Markus

They both could be. Air communications in aircraft are carried on multiple frequency as in any radio. If the Turks were broadcasting on one frequency, but the Russians were on another, they would not have heard the warnings.

You had the same issue when the U.S.S. Vincennes shot down Iran Air flight 355:

According to the same reports, Vincennes tried unsuccessfully to contact the approaching aircraft, seven times on the military emergency frequency and three times on the civilian emergency frequency, but never on air traffic control frequencies. This civilian aircraft was not equipped to pick up military frequencies and the messages on the civilian emergency channel could have been directed at any aircraft. More confusion arose as the hailed speed was the ground speed, while the pilot's instruments displayed airspeed, which was 50-knot (93 km/h) different

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[Oberon]

Turkish tanks continuing to be sent to the Syrian border.

Meanwhile a still from a video taken from inside an Su-24 shows the sort of GPS unit that is used on board:





Yeah, the sort of thing you can buy on ebay...

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

They both could be. Air communications in aircraft are carried on multiple frequency as in any radio. If the Turks were broadcasting on one frequency, but the Russians were on another, they would not have heard the warnings.

You had the same issue when the U.S.S. Vincennes shot down Iran Air flight 355:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Thank you for your answer

I thought they had their radio on a international channel as they have on the seas(Channel 16 if I remember correctly) Or Turkey tried to warn them on several diffeent radio channels.

I also thought the Turkish Airs force knew the frequencies the Russians use in their AF

Markus

[eddie]

I don't come down on the side of Turkey in this incident at all. First of all, I think President Erdogbone, is an arse!! Is this incident his way of getting even for the Turkish F4 that violated Syrian airspace and ended up getting shot down earlier this year!

Erdogbone talks about Turkish Airspace being violated, what about earlier this year when his air force violated Iraqi Airspace when they bombed the Kurds in northern Iraq? I guess its ok for that prick to do whatever he wants, but the rest of the world has to play by the rules!?! Screw him, I hope the Russians put an S-300 right up his arse!!

[BossMark]

[Catfish]

^

Read this in another forum:

"Well the situation there is so complicated that Italy still is unsure on which Ally to betray."

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Thank you for your answer

I thought they had their radio on a international channel as they have on the seas(Channel 16 if I remember correctly) Or Turkey tried to warn them on several diffeent radio channels.

I also thought the Turkish Airs force knew the frequencies the Russians use in their AF

Markus

I dont know the particular and am just making an educated guess. The Turks said they used the "Guard" channel which is the standard military emergency channel which every aircraft is supposed to monitor.

Of course, I have no idea what is the SOP on a Russian SU-24 or if they were monitoring it. Since they were involved in ground strikes at the time, they were most likely only communicating with the other AC in the flight and their own ATC, I would think.

Another issue is that the warning, at least the one I heard was in english. Again, I do not know but presume the Russian air crews do not all speak english.

[Oberon]

Either that or they had their orders that taking a short-cut through Turkish airspace was acceptable and they didn't want to disobey orders. It's possible that Russia didn't think Turkey would call their bluff on it.
In other words, both sides played chicken and neither side blinked.