Turkey shoots down Russian aircraft. - Page 2

Oberon · 11-24-15, 12:14 PM

Turkey, you dumb son of a...

Unfortunately on a legal stand-point we can't really kick Turkey out of NATO for this, but we can hang them out to dry in this case and let Russia know in an unofficial matter that we do not support Turkeys actions.

Sadly, I don't think anyone is majorly surprised by this, it was just a matter of time, considering how close to the Turkish border some of these missions have run, but even so it was stupid of Turkey to undertake this action, but we all know that Turkey are rooting for Daesh so that Assad can be removed and Syria remain disorganised, allowing Turkey to be the dominant power in the region.

It's a pity that Russia can't react in any manner other than diplomatically, if I were in Putins shoes I'd be sorely tempted to have one of the cruise missiles that they've been lobbing at Syria accidentally cross the border into Turkey and accidentally land on a SAM site, but that would just escalate the matter and that's an action that neither Russia or NATO want to happen, and it wouldn't be in Russias best interests now that it's winning over the West and the moderate Arab states into supporting its campaign in Syria (and even joining in in some places). So there'll be a lot of diplomatic furor, but chances are the military response will be minimal, most likely a few HARM equipped Flankers might roam the border, daring a Turkish SAM site to fire on them so they can respond and destroy it in self defence.

Dowly · 11-24-15, 12:19 PM

Does not look good for the pilots judging by the videos I've seen today.

eddie · 11-24-15, 01:20 PM

You're right on that Dowly, reports say that a Rebel group in the area shot and killed one of the pilots as he was coming down in his chute. Not sure about the second pilot, but as a Russian helicopter was searching for the pilots, it came under fie too, was hit and forced down. It came down (unsure as to what happened to the crew) and the rebels destroyed the chopper with a TOW rocket.

Going to be interesting to watch the Russian response, Turkey is scared, they have already called for a special NATO meeting. Screw them, let them deal with Russia on their own.

mapuc · 11-24-15, 01:26 PM

From every "expert" I have seen on different news program say it is not in Putin's interest to escalate this.

A sort of Diplomatically crisis is a fact because of this, but it will stay within words.

Of course some Danish tabloids paper, are writing stuff like

"Russia see this an unfriendly act, and Russia is now working on an appropriate reaction in response to this"

Markus

Bilge_Rat · 11-24-15, 01:29 PM

the strip of land that the Russians supposedly flew over is only 2 km wide, so a SU24 would take at most 15-20 seconds to cross. If the Turks sent out warnings for 5 minutes, the SU24 would have been over Syria most of that time.

Dmitry Markov · 11-24-15, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

the strip of land that the Russians supposedly flew over is only 2 km wide, so a SU24 would take at most 15-20 seconds to cross. If the Turks sent out warnings for 5 minutes, the SU24 would have been over Syria most of that time.

That's exactly what I was saying a bit earlier.
Our mass media emphasize that neither our President nor his administration say about possibility of a military response. Though some kind of diplomatical / economical measures would be taken of course.
Our Foreign Minister for example have canceled his visit to Turkey. And our tourist companies are stopping sales of tours to Turkey.

nikimcbee · 11-24-15, 01:48 PM

Betonov · 11-24-15, 01:48 PM

Slovene media reports that Turkey and Russia are close trading partners.
A Russian embargo on Turkish goods might do a lot more damage than a cruise missile.

Turkmen rebels on the other hand...

Bilge_Rat · 11-24-15, 02:20 PM

Another map posted on the BBC which shows the Russian jet was hit while over Syria travelling away from Turkey.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34913173

nikimcbee · 11-24-15, 02:22 PM

I guess I'll listen to Russian radio today. VoR/РИА.

ikalugin · 11-24-15, 02:38 PM

Quote:

It's a pity that Russia can't react in any manner other than diplomatically, if I were in Putins shoes I'd be sorely tempted to have one of the cruise missiles that they've been lobbing at Syria accidentally cross the border into Turkey and accidentally land on a SAM site, but that would just escalate the matter and that's an action that neither Russia or NATO want to happen, and it wouldn't be in Russias best interests now that it's winning over the West and the moderate Arab states into supporting its campaign in Syria (and even joining in in some places).

We can do jamming and lock ons on anything that gets close to the border area.

Oberon · 11-24-15, 02:39 PM

Was the Turkish aircraft that fired the AAM inside Syrian airspace?

Assuming it was an AMRAAM, the range of the AIM-120 is around 30-90 miles, depending on the type, so the Turkish aircraft probably locked it up when it was in Turkish airspace, then fired when it departed.
Still bloody stupid to hit an aircraft for flying through two miles worth of airspace, but I guess the Turks did warn Russia the last time this happened.

In more sinister news, it turns out that the Russian helicopter that went to try and find any surviving crew from the downed Su-24 was shot down by the members of the Free Syrian Army using a TOW missile...most likely supplied to them by the West...

Bilge_Rat · 11-24-15, 02:39 PM

Russia is claiming the F16 that shot down the Russian jet itself violated Syrian air space.

If you look at the radar track map supplied by Turkey, the F16 track does seem to very conveniently stop just when it reaches the border.

ikalugin · 11-24-15, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

the strip of land that the Russians supposedly flew over is only 2 km wide, so a SU24 would take at most 15-20 seconds to cross. If the Turks sent out warnings for 5 minutes, the SU24 would have been over Syria most of that time.

Allegedly 17:

(the authenticity was not verified by me)

Oberon · 11-24-15, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Russia is claiming the F16 that shot down the Russian jet itself violated Syrian air space.

If you look at the radar track map supplied by Turkey, the F16 track does seem to very conveniently stop just when it reaches the border.

Ha, so Turkey has converted their F16s to VTOL now, eh?

What a bloody mess.

11-24-15, 01:20 PM	#18
eddie Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,023 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	You're right on that Dowly, reports say that a Rebel group in the area shot and killed one of the pilots as he was coming down in his chute. Not sure about the second pilot, but as a Russian helicopter was searching for the pilots, it came under fie too, was hit and forced down. It came down (unsure as to what happened to the crew) and the rebels destroyed the chopper with a TOW rocket. Going to be interesting to watch the Russian response, Turkey is scared, they have already called for a special NATO meeting. Screw them, let them deal with Russia on their own. __________________ Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I'm kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me. Al Capone

11-24-15, 01:29 PM	#20
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	the strip of land that the Russians supposedly flew over is only 2 km wide, so a SU24 would take at most 15-20 seconds to cross. If the Turks sent out warnings for 5 minutes, the SU24 would have been over Syria most of that time. __________________

11-24-15, 01:48 PM	#22
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	__________________

11-24-15, 02:20 PM	#24
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	Another map posted on the BBC which shows the Russian jet was hit while over Syria travelling away from Turkey. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34913173 __________________

11-24-15, 02:22 PM	#25
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I guess I'll listen to Russian radio today. VoR/РИА. __________________

11-24-15, 12:14 PM	#16
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Turkey, you dumb son of a... Unfortunately on a legal stand-point we can't really kick Turkey out of NATO for this, but we can hang them out to dry in this case and let Russia know in an unofficial matter that we do not support Turkeys actions. Sadly, I don't think anyone is majorly surprised by this, it was just a matter of time, considering how close to the Turkish border some of these missions have run, but even so it was stupid of Turkey to undertake this action, but we all know that Turkey are rooting for Daesh so that Assad can be removed and Syria remain disorganised, allowing Turkey to be the dominant power in the region. It's a pity that Russia can't react in any manner other than diplomatically, if I were in Putins shoes I'd be sorely tempted to have one of the cruise missiles that they've been lobbing at Syria accidentally cross the border into Turkey and accidentally land on a SAM site, but that would just escalate the matter and that's an action that neither Russia or NATO want to happen, and it wouldn't be in Russias best interests now that it's winning over the West and the moderate Arab states into supporting its campaign in Syria (and even joining in in some places). So there'll be a lot of diplomatic furor, but chances are the military response will be minimal, most likely a few HARM equipped Flankers might roam the border, daring a Turkish SAM site to fire on them so they can respond and destroy it in self defence.

11-24-15, 12:19 PM	#17
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,054 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Does not look good for the pilots judging by the videos I've seen today.

11-24-15, 01:26 PM	#19
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,541 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	From every "expert" I have seen on different news program say it is not in Putin's interest to escalate this. A sort of Diplomatically crisis is a fact because of this, but it will stay within words. Of course some Danish tabloids paper, are writing stuff like "Russia see this an unfriendly act, and Russia is now working on an appropriate reaction in response to this" Markus

11-24-15, 01:48 PM	#23
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Slovene media reports that Turkey and Russia are close trading partners. A Russian embargo on Turkish goods might do a lot more damage than a cruise missile. Turkmen rebels on the other hand...

11-24-15, 02:39 PM	#27
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Was the Turkish aircraft that fired the AAM inside Syrian airspace? Assuming it was an AMRAAM, the range of the AIM-120 is around 30-90 miles, depending on the type, so the Turkish aircraft probably locked it up when it was in Turkish airspace, then fired when it departed. Still bloody stupid to hit an aircraft for flying through two miles worth of airspace, but I guess the Turks did warn Russia the last time this happened. In more sinister news, it turns out that the Russian helicopter that went to try and find any surviving crew from the downed Su-24 was shot down by the members of the Free Syrian Army using a TOW missile...most likely supplied to them by the West...