Turkey shoots down Russian aircraft.

[ikalugin]

Statement by Putin (translated into eng).


If this Turkish data is correct, then it implies that Turkey had only a very narrow window of opportunity to engage the aircraft within it's airspace (below 30 seconds or so). Thus it is propable that even if RuASF aircraft did violate Turkish airspace it was outside of the Turkish airspace when it was hit.

[Dmitry Markov]

Turks say that they've made 10 warnings in 5 minutes via radio but our bomber didn't react... Taking into account amount of Turkish airspace that was supposedly crossed by Su-24 which took it less than a minute - doesn't that mean that they were ready and waiting and what's more - Wanting for our plane to cross the border for a moment. This far situation looks like a bomber was hit over Syrian territory. From our point of view (I mean our official position that Su-24 didn't cross Turkish border) this mess can be described as an ambush which purpose was a vengeance for destroying IS's oil structures. Actually that is what everybody here are saying.
What looks even more weird is that Turkey announsed NATO council immediately after this shooting. Just like a boy throwing a stone into neighbour's car runs to his daddy crying - " He did it first!"
My thoughts go to our pilots - there are controversial messages about what's happened to them.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Dmitry Markov

Turks say that they've made 10 warnings in 5 minutes via radio but our bomber didn't react... Taking into account amount of Turkish airspace that was supposedly crossed by Su-24 which took it less than a minute - doesn't that mean that they were ready and waiting and what's more - Wanting for our plane to cross the border for a moment. This far situation looks like a bomber was hit over Syrian territory. From our point of view (I mean our official position that Su-24 didn't cross Turkish border) this mess can be described as an ambush which purpose was a vengeance for destroying IS's oil structures. Actually that is what everybody here are saying.
What looks even more weird is that Turkey announsed NATO council immediately after this shooting. Just like a boy throwing a stone into neighbour's car runs to his daddy crying - " He did it first!"
My thoughts go to our pilots - there are controversial messages about what's happened to them.

The current unconfirmed reports are that one pilot was killed . If so, hopefully, the other crew member if not both are ok and receiving medical care if needed and will be returned in short order.

[Jimbuna]

I heard one report on UK where the Syrian rebels are claiming to have machine-gunned the pilots as they were descending to the ground in their parachutes.

What a mess....all the area needs right now

[moose1am]

I like coming in here to read what others have to say. We all get our news from different sources. I get my news from places like CNN or MSNBC news in the USA. But I find it very interesting reading what the other side has to say about this. I'm worried that misunderstanding might happen and this situation could escalate into some thing bigger.

I've never flown a Jet Fighter and have no idea how one can tell exactly where they are all all times and where certain boarders are or are not. So I don't know for a fact where the plane was when it was shot down.

I'd like to ask the guys from Russia in here about the following news that we have heard here in the USA. I've read in the last month or so after this mess in Syria began that Russian Planes had flown though Turkish Air Space in order to get to the Russian Airfields in Syria? Have you guys in Russia heard that too?

At least in this forum we can actually communicate with each other and not have to depend on what the news medias tell us. Not being there to see for myself I'm not sure who or what to believe anymore. I know that our media can be biased at times. I'm assuming that we are told what they want us to hear. Which is actually very little other than the propaganda we hear on our TVS and Radios. The internet can help change the way we get our news.

I'm sorry for the two Russian Pilots who were only doing what they were ordered to do by their commanders. We are always the pawns in these wars which are run by our upper classes.

[moose1am]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Statement by Putin (translated into eng).


If this Turkish data is correct, then it implies that Turkey had only a very narrow window of opportunity to engage the aircraft within it's airspace (below 30 seconds or so). Thus it is propable that even if RuASF aircraft did violate Turkish airspace it was outside of the Turkish airspace when it was hit.

Greetings ikalugin. We here in the USA this morning were told that the people fighting in this area where the Russian Jet was shot down were not ISIS fighters but the Anti ASAD fighters being supported by the USA and others in the West.

The problem with this conflict is that the USA supports the guys in Syria who want to topple President Assad in Syria and I'm told that Russia in there to support Assad and his people.

But that Russia and the USA and France and others in the West are all wanting to destroy the ISIS fighters.

I just hope that this conflict does not lead to more fighting. it's bad enough already.

We all need to take a few steps back and take a deep breath and hope that this situation in Syria and the entire Middle East calms down.

I've got to get ready to go to work now so I'll not be able to discuss this anymore right now. I don't get into this forum very often anymore. But I thought I would pop into this forum today and see what the other side of the world was saying about this situation in Syria. I pray that it deescalates soon.

[Rockstar]

Fark Turkey, I say ramp it up baby. Hope Russia sends them early christmas presents

[Betonov]

The anti-turk sentiment is getting dangerously close to uniting this forum on one issue.

Shame about the pilots
They weren't KIA, they were murdered.

[Eichhörnchen]

Brilliant thread title...

[ikalugin]

moose1am

Everyone in the region has their own little agenda in addition to fighting the more or less universally hated ISIS. In this particular case RuASF was conducting strikes against the anti-Assad and pro Turkey rebels, supported by Turkey with arms and if I remember it right instructors/advisors.

Recently there was a rumour that Turkey deployed ~5k special forces into that (Syrian) area to support rebel operations. At the same time Turkey has very strong anti Kurd interests (because Kurds want an independent state) and were allegedly supporting ISIS financially, view the oil trade.

[Oberon]

Turkey, you dumb son of a...

Unfortunately on a legal stand-point we can't really kick Turkey out of NATO for this, but we can hang them out to dry in this case and let Russia know in an unofficial matter that we do not support Turkeys actions.

Sadly, I don't think anyone is majorly surprised by this, it was just a matter of time, considering how close to the Turkish border some of these missions have run, but even so it was stupid of Turkey to undertake this action, but we all know that Turkey are rooting for Daesh so that Assad can be removed and Syria remain disorganised, allowing Turkey to be the dominant power in the region.

It's a pity that Russia can't react in any manner other than diplomatically, if I were in Putins shoes I'd be sorely tempted to have one of the cruise missiles that they've been lobbing at Syria accidentally cross the border into Turkey and accidentally land on a SAM site, but that would just escalate the matter and that's an action that neither Russia or NATO want to happen, and it wouldn't be in Russias best interests now that it's winning over the West and the moderate Arab states into supporting its campaign in Syria (and even joining in in some places). So there'll be a lot of diplomatic furor, but chances are the military response will be minimal, most likely a few HARM equipped Flankers might roam the border, daring a Turkish SAM site to fire on them so they can respond and destroy it in self defence.

[Dowly]

Does not look good for the pilots judging by the videos I've seen today.

[eddie]

You're right on that Dowly, reports say that a Rebel group in the area shot and killed one of the pilots as he was coming down in his chute. Not sure about the second pilot, but as a Russian helicopter was searching for the pilots, it came under fie too, was hit and forced down. It came down (unsure as to what happened to the crew) and the rebels destroyed the chopper with a TOW rocket.

Going to be interesting to watch the Russian response, Turkey is scared, they have already called for a special NATO meeting. Screw them, let them deal with Russia on their own.

[mapuc]

From every "expert" I have seen on different news program say it is not in Putin's interest to escalate this.

A sort of Diplomatically crisis is a fact because of this, but it will stay within words.

Of course some Danish tabloids paper, are writing stuff like

"Russia see this an unfriendly act, and Russia is now working on an appropriate reaction in response to this"

Markus

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Unfortunately on a legal stand-point we can't really kick Turkey out of NATO for this, but we can hang them out to dry in this case and let Russia know in an unofficial matter that we do not support Turkeys actions.

Knowing the brain dead windbags in Brussels and Nato they will do the exact opposite and support Turkey just to pee off Putin because.....well....we always did that...can't change old games now, can we?