Overrated events/persons in history?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by August

Montgomery.

His greatest claim to fame is that he just happened to be the latest in a long line of British Commanders when the tide of men and material finally overwhelmed a weakened and stretched out Afrika Corps. During the Sicily campaign his decision to land at Syracuse allowed the Germans to escape from Messina. His tardiness in clearing the Schelde Estuary very nearly ran the Allies out of gas and ammo just as they hit the German border and his Holland campaign was far more than A Bridge Too Far, it got an entire Airborne division wiped out and they were lucky it wasn't three and an Armored Corps to boot.

I tend to agree and Operation Goodwood was the ultimate turning point in the relationship between Eisenhower and him, Eisenhower feeling that Montgomery lied in his promised pre-operational objectives, leaving him (Eisenhower) open to allegations of failure from his 'enemies'.

[STEED]

Present British Prime Minister David Cameron.

UK debt has doubled under him.
Recovery based on the service sector figures, banks in most part.

I know BossMark will agree with me.

[Platapus]

Two events that, while emotional, really are overrated in the context of actual events:

1. Kennedy's address to congress on 25 May 61

I believe that this Nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to Earth.

This is often applauded as being visionary, but it was simply political one-up-manship.

Earlier, Richard Nixon gave two speeches concerning space exploration.

In one, Nixon called for a manned trip around the moon, and in the other predicted that the first manned moon landing would occur in the 1970's

If your political opponent calls for a trip around the moon, then you say landing on the moon

If you political opponent calls for a moon landing in the 1970's, then you say before the 1970's.

JFK's speech writers just took Nixon's speeches and just "added 1".

Since JFK was not initially a big fan of the space race, I often wonder who was JFK competing against? The USSR or Nixon?

2. Reagan 12 Jun 87 speech

General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization, come here to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!

The actual opening of the border control was much more complicated and the US played an almost negligible role.

Both speeches were inspiring and certainly good political moves. But for actually changing world events, I feel they were overrated.

[Subnuts]

Well, I'd personally list every single person who was in Hitler's inner circle between 1933 and 1945, but if I did, I'd probably break the forum in the process.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

Well, I'd personally list every single person who was in Hitler's inner circle between 1933 and 1945, but if I did, I'd probably break the forum in the process.

Not sure.

As your on the subject area..

Barbarossa 1941

On paper looked possible, true to say Hitler did attack in the right year but long term planning and logistical support was poor. After the big punch of the first three weeks the army groups started to fan out and the problems set in. Hitler and his cronies believed in the great German will power, short sighted thinking.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by STEED

Not sure.

As your on the subject area..

Barbarossa 1941

On paper looked possible, true to say Hitler did attack in the right year but long term planning and logistical support was poor. After the big punch of the first three weeks the army groups started to fan out and the problems set in. Hitler and his cronies believed in the great German will power, short sighted thinking.

I think that the German military and everyone else was fooled by blitzkrieg and the fact that as yet (when Barbarossa was planned) no enemy had yet countered it. To think that they would make it all the way to Moscow and capture it before the Soviet military could bring about an effective counter was foolish. Granted they got close 20 miles but did not reach surround or most important actually capture Moscow.

[Betonov]

And lets not forget that Stalins purges likely killed off talented commanders and instilled fear into goverment officials that dared not bring bad news about stepping up war preparations.
The Germans would have crashed into a wall if a less paranoid leader would have let the ww1 and civil war hardened comanders prepare defences.

[Raptor1]

On the subject of Barbarossa, I think Operation Marita and the diversion of Army Group Center to the Battle of Kiev are often given unnecessary credit in supposedly fatally delaying the launch of Barbarossa and the attack on Moscow, respectively. I've seen many people that seem to think that had these events not occurred (ignoring, of course, that it was mud season in Russia when the Battle of Greece took place and the threat the Kiev salient posed to the German lines), the German army would have somehow captured Moscow and won the war.

This likely comes from the (in my opinion) mistaken but widespread impression that the Germans were somehow one right decision short of winning the war, rather than not even being remotely close to anything of the sort.

EDIT: Thinking about it, it probably wouldn't be a stretch to say that the German army in World War II is itself overrated in many ways either.

[ikalugin]

EDIT: Thinking about it, it probably wouldn't be a stretch to say that the German army in World War II is itself overrated in many ways either.

Which brings me to the point - German stories of GPW (WW2 on the Eastern Front) from which Cold War Western doctrines, tactics and operational concepts were developed.
Somehow people were trying to recapture the way Germans were fighting USSR, but forgeting that Germans lost that war for a reason.

[Oberon]

Continuing on the theme of WWII, I want to take a different stance and promote something, or rather someone, who is rather underrated and indeed has come to symbolise the failures which lead to the war.

Neville Chamberlain.

A name often associated with one action at one place, the treaty of Munich, but Chamberlain did so much more than that. In fact, he presided over the steady armament and preparation of Britain for an outbreak of war in Europe. Churchill came in as PM when it had all been completed, and carried in Britain in the defence and then offensive, but Chamberlain was the PM who laid the groundwork.
It's just a pity that all he is remembered for is a mistake in his foreign policy, but there's a lot of Presidents and Prime Minister who have history like that.

[STEED]

The Beatles..

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by STEED

The Beatles..

You saying they're overrated or are you going to find me and kill me

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Betonov

You saying they're overrated or are you going to find me and kill me

I just don't get this Beatles mania that is still here today!

They were rubbish and very over rated.

[Betonov]

Thank god I'm not the only one

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Thank god I'm not the only one