Europe's migrant problem

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

So after all the hoopala this topic has generated. It basically boils down to war sucks and as long as its not my country taking in the massive flood of asylum seekers. The host nation just needs to stop being such paranoid xenophobes, deal with it and stop complaining.

about right?

PSSSST ! Xenophobe: "one unduly fearful of what is foreign and especially of people of foreign origin" Thus paranoid is redundant

Originally Posted by AktungBBY

situation in Syria and Iraq have promulgated the Islamic Volksmarch into Europe. Half of the refugees are Syrian

Originally Posted by Skybird

Just that this Völkerwanderung is from South to North.

Damn! I left out the umlaut! but we're thinking alke here!

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

...a known paper hanger (what exactly does that mean anyway, heard it plenty of times but never actually have known)

A person who installs wall paper.

[Alex]

European televisions are suffering from an awesome and relentless propaganda campaign led by government media, great media entities, and I bet anyone living in the european union can see political leading personalities preaching for a massive and global commitment to ensure safe migratory flows.

Naturally, and of course, this is not philanthropy. If people living in Europe needed to engage in philanthropy activities, well that would be good... But we do NOT need to care about migrants !

Speaking about the country I live in, we already have masses living in great difficulties - homeless people, but I should mention first and foremost those millions of unemployed people, those millions of students just leaving the educational system without a job, as well as redundant workers who can't access the labour market any more, not to mention pensioners having an unstable job, etc., etc.

So we honestly have our share of misery in the country to arouse empathy and commiseration from the elites.

However, it is obvious the education of children is not regarded as a major issue - and this is certainly the case in many other countries as well - and yet, everyday everyone can notice the collapse of literacy rate in France, that is going to produce people who can't enter the production apparatus, resulting in precariousness of life, unemployment, poverty. Those people are not entitled to the empathy coming from the oligarchy right now or even before.

So, that sudden surge of media is not fortuitous, and it responds to a very precise agenda - keep that in mind. Also, very tactfully, media transfer that question from the political, geopolitical and economical points of view, to the moral one.
You don't get to hear about what's the root cause of this crisis, no one addresses accountability for that crisis, nor will you hear about social and economical consequences of that migratory invasion, nor about consequences on already existing migratory flows. No mention is made of the entire context in which this event occurs.
The focus is put on the moral issue - taken out of context, an ethereal issue - leaving only the possibility for a "yes" or "no" answer, making you feel like you'll be considered as the devil if you answer "no".

The question asked to those who live in the european union is simple, and formulated as follows : do you accept to let poor people die at the borders of the european community ?
Put that way, obviously the problem makes people feel like they have a gun to their heads, and this kind of political media coverage is done purposely.
So let's put aside that moralized media coverage psychologised to the extreme, and rather focus on the true origins of the problem, and more specifically what is at stake here.

First and foremost, we can see those who created conflicts related to that problem (syrian and libyan conflicts, destabilization of Egypt) supported Islamists actively (the Muslim Brotherhood was supported by Qatar in Egypt, and Qatar is involved with the french government and others, including the english and american ones ).
Destabilization of Tunisia, destruction of Libya, destruction of Syria, here again with Al Qaida's help. Not only did the french minister for foreign affairs called for the physical destruction of Bashar Al-Assad, but he also mentioned on the al-Nosra front (a militia following Al-Qaida's principles) that they do, I quote : "a good job in the area". That was many months ago. That just shows the absolute cynicism of those who rule these days.
They supported political islamism - be it jihadist or only electioneering like in Egypt - targeting economical and geopolitical benefits.

And we see that intellectual and moral cheat : pyromaniac fire fighters dressed as judges to draw up the bill of indictment against the European population that got no role in these wars. The french minister for foreign affairs drew up the bill of indictment against Hungary - that never participated in any war of aggression against Libya or against Syria - saying it's unacceptable that Hungary does its best to control the great tidal wave of migrants, and so respects the legal process - yet Hungary is indeed expected to do that, since it needs to secure part of the external border of the Schengen area as it shares a border with Serbia.

Fundamentally, these days, the german approach shows the european union's architecture as we know it is in a headlong rush. Why does Germany seems to open its arms to that massive islamic immigration ? Of course, this is no philanthropy. People supporting wars actively - be it in the Middle-East, or even in Ukraine - are not the type of people paying much attention to the human cost of operations they conduct. Let it not be said that the primary objective of german employers is to be the exemplary student in terms of international philanthropy. Of course, it's all about immediate financial interests. This is a short term vision, because Germany, just like other European countries, experiences an extremely important demographic crisis. And this is a good short-term way to claim to be able to fill the gaps at the bottom of the earning scale - at least that's what they think.
But more fundamentally, the german reaction planning to impose - with the help of France - that muslim immigration in countries from Eastern Europe (Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Poland, Baltic countries, and others) in the name of quotas decided by Brussels, is based on a very simple idea : half of the german gross domestic product gets exported. Out of that part of the german GDP, one quarter is destined for the european union. So it is just impossible for Germany to expect its industrial production apparatus - and its income - to be maintained if the Free Trade Area collapses. As simple as that.

The issue of massive immigration as it is these days - that is a consequence of geopolitical activities from the united states of America and their vassals from Western Europe - has an immediate consequence on the Balkans, Eastern Europe, and the Free Trade Area, including Germany. And Germany, in order to save the Free Trade Area, has no other choice than to force countries from Eastern Europe to accept that immigration, as the natural reflex of countries threatened by that immigration is to resort to the exit from the Schengen area (that is indeed designed to let peoples living in the european union be able to move around their respective countries).

But what we are witnessing now is the pure and simple absence of will to repel the invasion , whether in Greece or anywhere else. This is a collective resignation, and in fact every country lets his neighbour take care of the flow of migrants.

However, Hungarians, Slovakians, Poles that gained independence from the USSR tutelage and chose to defend their own culture and their freedom, certainly do not want to succumb to the influence of a system using coercion to maintain the german production equipment . The german blackmail - as well as the french one - consisting in saying things like "become a Muslim, become an African so that we can maintain our industry and our finance system", countries like Hungary are not going to accept that, nor Slovakia, nor any of the Eastern countries. They're not going to accept to abdicate their national character, their identity, so that benefits of german and french big employers can be kept afloat. That is impossible.

Therefore, the question of the €uro, and the question of the Free Trade Area the way it is constituted these days, are fundamentally threatened by that massive immigration jumping into the european union.
Obviously, the smart position of Germany should have been to repel massive immigration, whatever the means used, including the military force. Yet those countries from Western Europe, being culturally destroyed, and having acceded to an anti-culture consisting in cultural marxism, anti-racism, internationalism, as well as that simple idea that Europe is an open area where anyone can come and settle anywhere, no matter the religion, skin colour, etc. , disregarding History, is an anti-historic vision that countries from Eastern and Central Europe do not share. Those countries are aware of what they are, they know where they come from, they know what it costed them to maintain themselves as countries and peoples, and those nationalities are not going to dismiss themselves to please oligarchs and bourgeoisies from Paris, Berlin, Munich, or Frankfurt for example, not to mention London. That is an impossibility, one needs to fully understand that.

And behind that... There is the NATO question.
If the european union collapses economically and politically (in particular through the return of national borders in many countries), the NATO implosion is going to start. And Russia can see that. That country most probably intends to dismantle that structure threatening its borders. So a lot is at stake.

Let's speak about an existential issue, that was indeed the first problem of the european union on the day it was created. In all likelihood, no European nation is against the european union if it ever had been really European. Yet the word "European" is one too many in "european union". It's never been an European union in the cultural, civilizational, racial, and spiritual senses of the word. It's an artificial construction, getting more and more jacobin, authoritarian, centralistic, and rootless, a construction that got communist or socialist principles, so to speak, as funding principles. Principles like the one pretending that to be European, race and culture don't matter. That is an historical impossibility . And even in affected countries of Western Europe, populations rise up more and more against that derealized vision from elites governing the european union and governments from its member states.

May be some headlong rush from authorities from Western Europe, people who adhere to the atlanticist vision, people supporting employers from Western Europe (radically german)... And we may well be driving towards the collapse of that structure in the end, exactly like the USSR some time ago. And basically, the response from the elite/oligarchy can be nothing but coercive (that explains tougher security laws, and the threatening rhetoric toward populations, especially when it comes to immigration). Taking in consideration our politics these days (french president, prime ministers from countries concerned), there's way to feel like people are considered as enemies - see how you're talked to by authorities, what we handle in here sounds like a constant accusation of the french population that is kind of monitored... Looks very much like it's not going to lead to something good...

Naturally, that situation calls for a resistance. Everyday one can take notice of the divorce between populations - abandoned by their political leaders - and the great solidarity between the whole state apparatus and subsidised associations and government media constantly favouring foreigners.
It's just fascinating to see how much authorities and their pseudo-representatives loath their own population, how much they have absolutely no empathy for their own people, obviously shown through that great support they bring to foreigners they know nothing about, and who're going to threaten ourselves very soon, since we're facing a demographic transformation absolutely considerable.

[mapuc]

It only takes a few

Some of my FB-friends say there ain't no such thing as moderate Muslims

I disagree. I do know there are a few radical Muslim among them, that doesn't make every one radical

But it only takes a few of these to keep the other 95-98 % in a short line and our own left wings are protecting these Islams, by down-talking ordinary people who are saying this.

It does happen on occasion some newspaper in Denmark or Sweden have some article about some group of these Islams walking around in the neighborhood and controlling other Muslims, see if they are living as Muhammad told them.

Oh it does happen some brave Muslim goes against them. From that day on, they live under content protection. From their own religion, they receive death threat, from the right wing people in the country where they live-an accusation that they are lying and from left wing they get a "Now-come-on- you are overdoing it"

Markus

[mapuc]

^ On my lastest post ?

Markus

[_dgn_]

About the future of Europe (and the destruction of its civilization), please read Jean Raspail's great novel, named The Camp of the Saints !

Yesterday (in 1973, when published), it was only considered as an impossible nightmare. Today, it's becoming practically a reality ...

Cheers.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I also don't believe in any grand Islamic conspiracy to overthrow Europe, or that every refugee is a suicide bomber waiting to explode, or other such rubbish.

I'm sure most of the migrants are wonderful people. They are leaving a war zone, which says they are not fighting the war. There's no Islamic conspiracy, any more than the Pilgrims were conspiring to eradicate the native American population.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

There's no Islamic conspiracy, any more than the Pilgrims were conspiring to eradicate the native American population.

WOOPS! propaganda-patrol here: A Very bad example there Maybe once then... http://www.manataka.org/page269.html " Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.
Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years."

[Rockstar]

... or anymore than American immigrants conspired to annex Texas.

[Rockstar]

Im sure India never believed they would be duped into slavery and ruled over by a tiny group of islanders either.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I'm sure most of the migrants are wonderful people. They are leaving a war zone, which says they are not fighting the war.

Note the numbers I mentioned above. It seems that not even a majority is "fleeing a warzone" at all. Since when are Marocco, Algeria again, Kosovo, Alabania, Bosnia Herzegovina been fought in?

"War refugee" and "migrant" are two totally different things. And the right for asking for asylum (that is what the right is about: to ask for asylum, not automatically being given asylum just because you demand it) refers only to the first, not to the latter.

I saw two facilities in and around my hometown in the past three weeks. I asked around a bit. In both facilities (there are more in and around this city), Syrians and Afghans and Iraqis are forming NOT the majority, it seems. the one holds a very mixed group of different people from all across Africa, the Balkans and the ME, the other holds predominantly people from the Balkan and the Palestinian Arab region, they said. Most people who came in recent weeks, were migrants from safe places - not war refugees. Syrians and Iraquis there were, too. But in no way they form a majority in these two facilities at least.

But as the numbers said that i gave earlier, that come from professional people being embedded in the organsiation of aiding and helping in the current events and knowing the internal official numbers from the registraiton and control processes being conducted: at least 20% of the newcomers are Maroccan and Algerian, and at least one third is coming from the Muslims parts of the Balkans: Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia Herzegovina.

These are not refugees fleeing from war. These are migrants wanting more wealth.

Wealth migration is not covered by the right for asylum.

---
A short anecdote: after Obama indicated to Iran that the US is willing to arrange itself with a nuclear armed Iran in the forseeable future, the German "economy minister" Siegmar Gabriel immediately travelled to Teheran to improve the climate between both governments for better German deals with Teheran in the future (that will help Teheran to close the nuclear technology gaps more easily and smoothly). Well, beside Saudi Arabia, private Maroccan individuals and organizations, and Quatar, Iran is one of the three or four biggest financiers, exporters, supporters and organisers of global Muslim terrorism, and thus it is beside Sauid Arabia and Quatar and the Sunni anger in Iraq the main agent behind the violence and horror the Syrians and Kurds and many others currently have to face in over one half of the ME's region. How clever is it to support regimes and actors that are the main reason behind the region drowning in war and terror and doing deals with them, while at the same time needing to take in the victims of this violl,ence in numbers that bring our own social and econimic infrastructure to its knees and damage ourselves?

Short-sightedness, hypocrisy, and cynical egoism of political actors at its best.

The Rus sian form a huge and potent airbase in Syria. Any future Western military action in Syria will need to take into account military confrontation with the Russians themselves - not good. Russia supports Assad, Assad further gets supported by Hezbollah and Iran. But all three fight against the IS, which makes the Russian engagement an engagement against the IS as well. The West was too indifferent for too long, and now has no more options left. It has no potent proxy that could fight the IS, it doe snot want to jpoin the axis of evil Damaskus-Moscow-Teheran, and it does not want to get engaged on the ground itself (which is very wise). It has no potent ally to fight against IS, all American ambitions to arrange such alliances, have failed spectacularly. French and British airstrikes - well, you could as well let them be, they make no real difference at all. Turkish sultan Erdoghan has lost his majority in last elections due to the Kurds' gains, so he stages a new war with the Kurds - which are enemies of the IS - to rally Turkish support for himself and against the Kurds - and then calls new elections, regainign his majority at the loss of the Kurdish party. Turkey is more busy with bombing the PKK, than the IS, because Turkey is rivalling Syria for dominace in the region - and the IS is fighting against Turkey's rival, Assad. That makes the IS a natural ally of Erdoghan, and his past years' actions and support for the IS shows that. Now that the IS at times has turned against the hand that fed him, he still has not fully understood the lesson to be learned from that: you cannot "tame" and control the IS.

Its all insanity, all hope for reason is lost.

There are three kinds of walls and fences. The first kind is like the Berlin wall, it gets build to keep people inside that do not want to stay inside. The next one is a wall or fence that gets build to keep foreign powers out, like the fence between Spain and Africa, which works quite well. And the third one is the kind of fence and wall that Israel build or that guards the DMZ in Korea: to keep two sides separate that cannot peacefully live together. It also works, the numbers of terror attacks on the ground from Palestinian Arabs against Israeli has dropped dramatically, the Korean seize fire holds since half a century, more or less.

Being in total lack of both morally integer and practically realistic options for intervention, I suggest to build a big big wall around the ME war regions and its active actors, and the mass migration from south to North in general, and then closely guard and control it to make certain that nobody crawls over it or digs a tunnel underneath. The ME is collpasing, and it will not stop at where things are now. We need to run a strict containment protocol for the essential purpose of just proptecting ourselves. Control - has been lost long time ago. We need containment now, and isolation protocols - not draydreaming about "control". It's all lost. It'S too late. And the mistakes leaidng to this might have been maintained in past years - but they started already over half a century ago. Today'S present - is history's result.

[Armistead]

Great article by Sam Harris why Islam is really not moderate.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...source=twitter

[Rockstar]

Interviews for asylum requests will be conducted by 'the old man from Scene 24!'

"Stop! Who would cross the Bridge of Death must answer me these questions three, 'ere the other side he see."

[Betonov]

What will be the questions ??
Europe related topics, they probably know more than the natives.

[Rockstar]

You might be thinking of citizenship questions. Over here asylum requests are normally granted to a person who has been persecuted or suffered because of his or her race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group and or political opinion. So questions by the AO will revolve around those.

To the surprise of many seeking asylum. The desire for better living conditions, citizenship, opportunity, jobs, medical care, housing, family ties, child care, education, among others are not on the list concerns when considering Asylum requests