Europe's migrant problem

[mapuc]

Are we not heading to wards this thread ?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=215404

After have read Aktungbby latest post I start to wonder if we are heading to wards the thread about IS

Or is it me who is wrong.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

What I don't comprehend is why the EU doesnot freeze the assets of the Syrian state to pay for the mass exodus and issue a war crimes warrant against any and all parties. I notice none of refugees are headed for Russia which supports...or has supported the Assad regime; PUTIN' an unfair economic strain on Europe!. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%27s_role_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11845635/Vladimir-Putin-confirms-Russian-military-involvement-in-Syrias-civil-war.html what's new pussycat?

Yep, I don't think getting Assad out has much to do with him being the boogyman. I'd wager it has more to with further reducing Russias influence in the region.

200,000 dead and 11 millions refugees later and Assad is still there. If he goes that will leave all rebel groups including ISIS fighting each other for the throne increasing the death and refugee rosters. Power to the people!

[Onkel Neal]

[Betonov]

one thing I dont' get, Syria was 5 years ago a developed Mediteranean country with GDP larger than Slovenia. How does Assad go from running a successefull nation to being moronic enough that a civil war starts

[Betonov]

So right now our best shot of stopping this mess are the Russians which will keep Assad on the throne which is counter productive to solving this mess

[eddie]

I don't suppose the great Arab Spring had anything to do with it. I mean it worked so well every where else in the ME!

[ikalugin]

The reason why refugees do not go to Russia is because:
- Russia is far away.
- Russia does not provide much in terms of social security to refugees and/or illegal immigrants.

So pull and push factors wise Russia is not where your generic ME person would run to.

Now, Ukraine is a country with a large territory, agreeable government, fertile land and displacable population. From EU perspective creating those camps right about now in Ukraine (ie outsourcing the issue), by promising EU membership instead (with all refugees quotas) can work I guess.

[ikalugin]

But you see it is not a war but a counter terrorism operation. Plus agricultural West is not really affected.

[ikalugin]

When considering things from EU perspective I tend to classify Russian interests secondary to EU interests. Isn't that how this should be done? Plus you miss some points:
- Outsourcing camps to Ukraine would lift responsibility from the EU (provided EU funds them).
- Because those camps would be in Ukraine and you would move refugees families from the EU to their relatives in the camps (not sure if you could legally though) this would lift some of the immigration issues.
- Because they are in Ukraine (and Ukraine is not the least corrupt state of Europe) they would see very little incentive to run to Europe, even with future resettlement quotas to Old EU members promised. This reduces pull factor.
- You could later use this as an excuse to resettle those people locally, with allocation of farmland.

All of the above could be done by promising, not giving the EU status and maybe some minor key investment programs into food/agricultural industry.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Betonov

So right now our best shot of stopping this mess are the Russians which will keep Assad on the throne which is counter productive to solving this mess

Actually I think a Russian invasion would be the only thing to stop the madness in the short term and should be seen as salvation. But our own politicians would start crying again and put up sanctions and whatnot....
I have a very unpopular opinion here in Germany and that is to support Assad. Not because he's a nice guy, he actually is a mass murderer that should be drowned in pig feces but I think all alternatives to him are even worse for Syria and the rest of the world. So I would actually welcome Russian action in Syria.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Aye, he probably is the lesser of two evils there. It would be nice if a new government could be formed, but I think the time for that has long passed and Assad is the only viable option.
I don't think Russia would go all in though, their supply lines would be difficult to maintain without getting the nod from Turkey. So they'll just do what they normally do, unleash the 'little green men' at them.

According to some Danish expert a Russian intervention will get the situation even worse than it already is and it could destablize the region

This was some of the thing he said, when the journalist asked him about the rumours* about Russian forces fighting for Assad.

Markus

* Putin has confirmed there are Russian soldiers in Syria. Therefor it isn't a rumour anymore

[ikalugin]

The lesser of two evills for you. We have learned in Afghanistan the hard way what it takes to build a government that holds until supplies run out with external opposition (and there is external opposition to Assad regime).

We are not doing it again, as in medium term we would be stuck in Central Asia and Ukraine if nowhere else.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Ok, what's the solution then? Put them back into Syria? Might as well just give half of them to Daesh if you do that.



Do you possess any shred of human decency in your body?

Sure I do.This has nothing to do with decency or having a heart.This is about proper preservation of nations and not taking in the strays of the world because they have a hard luck story.Ignoring emotions(never will make proper decisions when influenced by emotion ie thinking with ones heart) and looking at this as a realist.Yes, it is sad what is happening in Syria but it does not give these people the right to flood into other countries and they certainly have no right to get angry, protest, clash with police etc because things are not going how they want.

Fact is the world is overcrowded and because of the third world it continues to be so, breeding like animals really.Borders are more important than even to, keep us from the disease etc(look what happened when all the illegal children from south america flooded the us last summer.Suddenly childhood diseases began to spring up everywhere, no coincidence as many of these children came from cesspools with little to no proper healthcare.Really is a sad situation but we must protect our own(legal citizens) and look after our part of the world first.Over time they will figure it out or maybe not, but not our problem.

Bleeding hearts such yourself are the problem in Europe and in the US, ignoring facts of crime, overcrowding, terrorism, debt, dwindling resources in the name of so called "decency".

Insult to injury, the theft(taxes) the government takes from me will pay for the 8,000 Syrians we take in, SMH.

Just waiting for when another attack happens and people act shocked that it turns out to be someone taken in as a Syrian migrant.Whether it is one who already a jihadi and uses it as cover or one who is "angry" at the nation that took him because does not assimilate to his beliefs from dark ages or "oppresses" him lol. This will happen, can bank on it.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Certainly one of the by-products of Indian and Pakistani emigration to the UK from the 1940s to the 1970s was a curry house on every avenue.



Here in the US it's burritos and tacos. And thanks to the influx of Vietnamese refugees you can't swing a dead cat in Washington State without hitting a punny pho shop.




So, Germany get ready for kebab and kibbeh in you national diet, if you haven't already.

Yes, sad part is these immigrants get business loans from the government(my tax money) to start all the pho places meanwhile people like my father(his business nearly collapsed during the recession) could not get one.Favoring outsiders over US citizens? sad days. Luckily, he found an investor and things are back on track.

[mapuc]

On a Danish news side I read following

The conservative(C) who's a supporting party to the Government has said Denmark should send not only F-16 to bomb IS, but also special forces to protect civilians in Syria-which mean engage IS, Assad's soldiers and other fighting units in Syria, if they are a threat to civilians.

When I read it, I thought.

Russian soldiers are in Syria and now perhaps Danish Special forces

Not a good cocktail.

Edit. Since Sunday afternoon about 1300 Refugees and Immigrant has crossed the German-Danish Border. It's a little kind of Crisis here in Denmark. Most of them are heading for Sweden. About 500 has vanished, can't be found by the Danish police.


Markus