Japan's surrender was not a simple on/off switch

[Onkel Neal]

I found this very interesting. Of course, the ceasefire was not a universal and guaranteed result of Hirohito's capitulation. I can imagine many US servicemen expecting a "trick". I bet those were tense times.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-t-happen.html

Seventy years ago today the recorded voice of Emperor Hirohito announced the acceptance of the Allied terms for Japan’s surrender. While that capitulation wasn’t official until the well-known ceremony held aboard the battleship USS Missouri in Tokyo Bay on Sept. 2, people around the world assumed that World War II was over. Then, three days after Hirohito’s tremulous announcement and Japan’s acceptance of a ceasefire, Sergeant Anthony J. Marchione—a 20-year-old aerial gunner in the U.S. Army Air Forces—bled to death in a bullet-riddled B-32 Dominator bomber in the clear, bright skies above Tokyo. The young man from Pottstown, Pennsylvania, has the dubious distinction of being the last U.S. service member to die in combat in World War II. Though tragic, his passing would be little more than an historical footnote were it not for the fact that his death came perilously close to prolonging a conflict most Americans believed was already over.

[Torplexed]

A Japanese surrender delegation was scheduled to fly to his Manila headquarters on August 19 via the U.S. airfield on the island of Ie Shima; if the two aircraft bearing the delegation failed to appear, it would be a clear sign that Tokyo was reneging on the surrender decision. If the aircraft did arrive, it would be an equally obvious indication that the attacks on the B-32s had been the work of a few diehards acting independently.

This almost didn't come off either. The planes chosen to fly the Japanese delegation to Ie Shima on Okinawa were two rickety bullet-ridden Betty bombers painted white with green crosses. One of them pancaked while landing at Ie Shima. The other bearing the instrument of surrender sprung a fuel leak on the way back to Japan and had to ditch in the water. Luckily the surrender papers remained dry and found their way to Tokyo.

[Aktungbby]

I t actually was a little worse than that: "
On 18 August 1945, four Dominators were given the task of photographing many of the targets covered on the previous day; however, mechanical problems caused two to be pulled from the flight. Over Japan, a formation of 14 A6M Zeros and three N1K2-J Shiden-Kai fighters (George) but apparently mis-identified as Ki-44 Tojos, by the American crews) attacked the remaining two U.S. aircraft. Saburo Sakai, a Japanese ace, said later that there was concern that the Dominators were attacking. Another Japanese ace, Sadamu Komachi, stated in a 1978 Japanese magazine article that the fighter pilots could not bear to see American bombers flying serenely over a devastated Tokyo.The B-32 Dominator Hobo Queen II (s/n 42-108532) was flying at 20,000 ft (6,100 m) when the Japanese fighters took off and received no significant damage. Hobo Queen II claimed two Zeros destroyed in the action as well as a probable Shiden-Kai. Japanese records show that no aircraft were lost. The other Dominator was flying 10,000 ft (3,000 m) below Hobo Queen II when the fighters took off. The fighters heavily damaged that Dominator, initially wounding the dorsal gunner and then seriously wounding two other members. Photographer Staff Sergeant Joseph Lacharite was wounded in the legs (his recovery required several years). Sergeant Anthony Marchione, a photographer's assistant, helped Lacharite and then was fatally wounded himself. Marchione was the last American to die in air combat in World War II. Despite the damage, the Dominator returned to Okinawa, however, the incident precipitated the removal of propellers from all Japanese fighters as per the terms of the ceasefire agreement, beginning 19 August 1945. The last B-32 combat photo reconnaissance mission was completed on 28 August, during which two B-32s were destroyed in separate accidents, with 15 of the 26 crewmen killed. On 30 August, the 386th Bomb Squadron stood down from operations.[wiki] 2nd from right front row: Anthony Marchione Hobo Queen II. The B 32 was the back-up parallel program incase B-29's didn't work out. 1500 were ordered only 118 were ever built, due to the B-29's success. The B-32's pressurization system problems were never solved, and consequently the aircraft was re-purposed as a bomber to be operated at low and medium altitude; Problems with the remote-controlled gun turrets were never solved and the armament on production aircraft was changed to 10 .50 caliber machine guns in manually operated turrets. http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/the-last-to-die-10099776/?no-ist

[Wolferz]

Then there were all the hold outs scattered across numerous Pacific islands who never got the word to quit.
Last ones discovered in 2005.

http://www.wanpela.com/holdouts/list.html

[Commander Wallace]

I had no idea this ever happened but shouldn't be surprised. I had read the accounts of Japanese sailors who revealed 2 American Dauntless dive bomber pilots were shot down in the battle of Midway and were subsequently interrogated and were bound and chained with weights and tossed over board alive.

Makes one mad and sad all over again.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Many Japanese soldiers and sailors where in a quandary when the end of war was announced. A majority would commit suicide rather then surrender, others decided to ignore the surrender order and would continue to fight the enemy until they where killed or captured, some did surrender believing that if they killed themselves they would be dying for nothing.

I just finished reading Operation Storm which is about the massive I-400 submarines, their crews, training, possible missions and of course the end of the war. In it, it describes the various possibilities that the subs crew would take. Not surprisingly suicide was mentioned, along with sailing to an isolated part of the eastern coast of Japan and dispersing the crew allowing them to return home as "ghosts", one even made the suggestion that they turn pirate stealing supplies from captured ships as they went (sounds like the plot of a Cussler novel). The biggest argument with deciding what to do happened between Commander Tatsunsuke Ariizumi, the commander of Submarine Squadron 1 (or Daiichi Sensuitai also known as Sen-toku) and the Lt. Commander Nobukiyo Nambu, commander of the I-401. Ariizumi would of preferred that the crew commit mass suicide or go rouge and go out in a final blaze of glory for the emperor. Nambu on the other hand thought that now the war had ended was the get his crew home alive but without being captured or surrendering. In the end Ariizumi killed himself and Nambu almost got his wish, but the I-401 was captured by the USS Segundo (SS 398) about 100 miles off the coast of Honshu some fifteen days after the ceasefire agreement had been signed.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I had no idea this ever happened but shouldn't be surprised. I had read the accounts of Japanese sailors who revealed 2 American Dauntless dive bomber pilots were shot down in the battle of Midway and were subsequently interrogated and were bound and chained with weights and tossed over board alive.

Makes one mad and sad all over again.

Our side did some pretty nasty things as well such deeds may have been more common on the Japanese side but they where not uncommon on the American side either. War brings out the best and worst in humans.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Our side did some pretty nasty things as well such deeds may have been more common on the Japanese side but they where not uncommon on the American side either. War brings out the best and worst in humans.

I'm sure you're probably right. No one wants to think they are the bad guy . I'm guessing there are many stories that have never seen the light of day. Every side wants to think they are wearing the " white hat "

War bringing out the worst in people makes it a thing to be avoided. Hopefully we all have learned that.

[vienna]

The Imperial order to the Japanese Military and the general population, also known as the Imperial Rescript, contains a paragraph with one of the greatest examples of understatement ever:

But now the war has lasted for nearly four years. Despite the best that has been done by everyone – the gallant fighting of the military and naval forces, the diligence and assiduity of Our servants of the State, and the devoted service of Our one hundred million people – the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage, while the general trends of the world have all turned against her interest.

.."developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage"; gee, ya think?...


<O>

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

War bringing out the worst in people makes it a thing to be avoided. Hopefully we all have learned that.

The Pacific War had a ugly racial tinge to it that the war against the Germans didn't. Prior to hostilities breaking out, the Japanese were seen as diminutive, buck-toothed and bespectacled sub-human specimens who couldn't shoot straight and, having started an endless war against the hapless Chinese they couldn't win, certainly couldn't be highly regarded a soldiers.

What's amusing is how quickly the subhumans of 1941 mutated into the superhumans of 1942 after conquering a vast empire in four months. In the wake of defeat after defeat, rumors began to fly among Allied soldiers that the Japanese possessed preternatural senses and abilities. Like bats, they could see in the darkness. Like panthers, they could move soundlessly through the jungle. Like ants, they could communicate with their own kind by some unspoken brainwave. They could live endlessly off the land, never needing rations. Unlike men they had no fear of death. The new myth, like the one it displaced, was based on absurd racial canards. But it struck fear into the men who had to face these reputed "superwarriors" on the ground, and for a while it proved to be self-fulfilling.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

The Pacific War had a ugly racial tinge to it that the war against the Germans didn't.

I disagree there. Certainly there was an ugly racial tinge that fueled the " final solution " in Europe. But more than likely fueled it in the pacific too. However, The Japanese of that time also regarded anyone who was not of the Japanese race to be subhuman. They brutalized the Chinese as well. As you said though, it is amazingly easy to underestimate an opponent though.

I saw a piece on the history channel where a military official ( I can't remember the name ) " had traveled extensively in Germany in the 1930's and decided to pattern his forces after the SS. Maybe someone knows who I mean and who his name was.

I do think the brutality that took place in Europe and in the Pacific had never been seen before. I'm sure a world war 2 veteran could attest to that which I'm not. Each side then will say the other was more brutal.

I would say the entire war was brutal.

[August]

I don't think WW2 was particularly racist compared to any other multi ethnic/cultural war in human history. Just better documented and fresh in the public's mind which is why it seems more, but war always has an ugly racial tinge to it. It's a very handy way of demonizing ones enemy without having examples of insult or transgressions to rally the people.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I do think the brutality that took place in Europe and in the Pacific had never been seen before. I'm sure a world war 2 veteran could attest to that which I'm not. Each side then will say the other was more brutal.

If you care to study history and read up on the books available, browse the internet etc. I'm confident you will find examples from hundreds of conflicts which will disagree with your current opinion.

Originally Posted by August

I don't think WW2 was particularly racist compared to any other multi ethnic/cultural war in human history. Just better documented and fresh in the public's mind which is why it seems more, but war always has an ugly racial tinge to it. It's a very handy way of demonizing ones enemy without having examples of insult or transgressions to rally the people.

Agreed

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

If you care to study history and read up on the books available, browse the internet etc. I'm confident you will find examples from hundreds of conflicts which will disagree with your current opinion.



Agreed

I did read them and stand by what I said although to clarify jim, I should have said the scope of ww2 or ww1 for that matter. It just seems so much technology in ww2 was invented for whole sale destruction. Other wars I think were in a relatively regional scope or as you put it, conflicts. The world wars, especially WW2 saw an explosion of technology equal to the skewed ideology that used them. They were called world wars for a reason.
Then again, I'm not a historian.

There is always a great danger when high technology is at hand and the wisdom to use it hasn't matured .


August is right though. Every thing is better documented now almost as though it were a spectator event, which it's not.

[Bilge_Rat]

okay...back to the surrender..

that was also an attempted coup on august 14 by a few die hards who did not want to surrender to occur:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident