Terrorist attack in South Carolina

[Harvs]

This is getting away from the original post and that should not happen with something so tragic, i will say no more.

[ikalugin]

It is indeed tragic, but all men must die.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Harvs

This is getting away from the original post and that should not happen with something so tragic, i will say no more.

Appreciated.

Terribly tragic incident.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Oberon

That's the definition of a terrorist, isn't it?

NO IT IS NOT THE DEFINITION.

Terrorism here in the U.S. is ALREADY defined. How pathetic, turning a tragedy into a personal quest for political correctness.

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*


"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).
* FISA defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the U.S. with "totally" outside the U.S. 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

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Hate crime.

Defining a Hate Crime
A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.


.

[Wolferz]

We don't know what to label this heinous act just yet, other than premeditated mass murder. There are plenty of laws governing the prosecution and punishment of this crime. The article linked in the OP didn't mention anything about terrorism, though I'm sure those folks were plenty terrified.

[eddie]

Comment made by the shooter during this senseless act-

The survivor’s son “was trying to talk him out of doing the act of killing people,” Johnson said. “He just said ‘I have to do it.’ He said, ‘You rape our women, and you’re taking over our country. And you have to go.’”

He didn't just start shooting from the back of the church, he actually walked up to each individual and shot them close range.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...eb1_story.html

[Platapus]

I am glad he got caught.

He needs to get a fair trial and if the evidence is clear, needs to be convicted and sentenced. South Carolina still has the death penalty so I figure that will be what the prosecution will go for.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I am glad he got caught.

He needs to get a fair trial and if the evidence is clear, needs to be convicted and sentenced. South Carolina still has the death penalty so I figure that will be what the prosecution will go for.

They should! Call him what you want, he's a murderer facing 9 counts of first degree murder! Signed, sealed and delivered to the needle in the arm, as far as I'm concerned!

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

NO IT IS NOT THE DEFINITION.

Terrorism here in the U.S. is ALREADY defined. How pathetic, turning a tragedy into a personal quest for political correctness.

I just thought I'd get in there before the usual crowd who are quick to label a homicidal Muslim a terrorist, or a homicidal black guy a thug, but also quick to label a homicidal white guy 'mentally unstable' did.

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).
* FISA defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the U.S. with "totally" outside the U.S. 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

-----------------

Hate crime.

Defining a Hate Crime
A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.


.

Fair enough, that's a pretty good definition if I'm honest. A better one, in fact, than the dictionary definition. I'll concede that, in legal terms, this person is not a terrorist.
Coming on to hate crime, is another tricky subject, and there's plenty of it about.

In regards to the accusations of hijacking a tragedy for political correctness, perhaps I could be accused of that, but equally no more than people who use events like Ferguson to further their anti-black agenda or the Boston bombings to further their anti-Muslim agenda.

[Oberon]

Dylann Roof, 21

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/...lann-roof.html

Pictured wearing Apartheid era South Africa flag, and Rhodesia flag patches, alledgedly told the people in the church "I have to do it. You're raping our women and taking over the country. You have to go."

[Rockstar]

[Betonov]

Legal definitions never convinced me.
They're written by rich people in air conditioned offices that were either born into a complete failure to understand the world or became that way from all the years of living isolated from the dirt and grid of the real world.

What matters is the opinion of the people affected and I'm certain they were terrified.

[gregorm]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Dylann Roof, 21

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/...lann-roof.html

Pictured wearing Apartheid era South Africa flag, and Rhodesia flag patches, alledgedly told the people in the church "I have to do it. You're raping our women and taking over the country. You have to go."

I hate this PC nonsense as much as the next guy and fully realize that people will use this tragedy to score political points but that doesn't change the fact that this was DOMTERR pure and simple.

Having people like Lindsey Graham claim that the kid's intentions was simply to hurt Christians is insane and only serves to further isolate right wing politics. Just like that politician throwing snowballs in congress. Embarrassing.

Which is a shame, because right wing politics has a lot to offer this nation.

[Onkel Neal]

This was a racially motivated crime, so it could easily be called domestic terrorism. No problem with that, but seeing the PC crowd get all wound up over the labels when they have nothing to say about the crime and killings elsewhere is sad.

And I'm sick of hearing pundits squeal about the racial divide etc in this country. That's BS, plain and simple. As a truck driver I work with a lot of people of color, every day I interact with black people. Probably half of the truck drivers I know are black. There's no issue with working people of all colors, as far as I can see.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I just thought I'd get in there before the usual crowd who are quick to label a homicidal Muslim a terrorist, or a homicidal black guy a thug, but also quick to label a homicidal white guy 'mentally unstable' did.