RN gets hit hard by the cuts?

[ikalugin]

I heard from a comrade of mine that RN is getting severely beaten up by the cuts. However, as a RN serviceman, he is too depressed to discuss any details. Anywhere I could read about the cuts in a way a person without deep insider knowledge of UK politics would understand?

[Jimbuna]

I could be wrong but as far as I am aware the details of where the cuts will happen have not been made public yet.

[Jimbuna]

Of some interest maybe:

For the RN this will almost certainly mean more of the same, further overall funding cuts, some new equipment but in smaller numbers and continued slow decline.

http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/elec...e-for-defence/

Current situation:

Only four out of Nato's 28 member states spent at least two per cent of their GDP on defence in 2013: Estonia, Greece, the USA and the UK, according to estimates.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-spending.html

Sad but true:

The Royal Navy with more admirals than surface warships?

http://en.mercopress.com/2014/10/19/...rface-warships

Following crippling defence cuts, there are now 40 admirals and 260 captains but just 19 ships.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3dK7XsKHS

[MGR1]

Typical British Government behavior, regardless of who's in charge. The lack of will to spend the money needed on defence is common to both. Labour because it wants to spend the money on welfare, the NHS and education, the Tories because they don't like the state spending money (full stop!) and they're also becoming increasingly isolationist in outlook.

Mike.

[ikalugin]

Thanks for the info, would read into it. Maybe some of our British comrades know more?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by MGR1

Typical British Government behavior, regardless of who's in charge. The lack of will to spend the money needed on defence is common to both. Labour because it wants to spend the money on welfare, the NHS and education, the Tories because they don't like the state spending money (full stop!) and they're also becoming increasingly isolationist in outlook.

Mike.

Yet we continue to stick our nose into international hot spots with a minimum of assets to do the task properly

[Betonov]

Jim, he's a Russian, tell him you'll be launching 10 new carriers next week

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Jim, he's a Russian, tell him you'll be launching 10 new carriers next week

If only

I looked at his thread regarding the resurgence of the Russian Navy and find it interesting....the question that immediately springs to mind is 'Where is the money coming from considering the predicament Russia finds itself in economically and what sacrifices will be made to find the funding?'

[ikalugin]

Jim, he's a Russian, tell him you'll be launching 10 new carriers next week

That would make me jelous

[ikalugin]

Wait, RN got rid of the T42s already? And only has 6 destroyers? Are there any more T45s planned or is that it? What is this madness?
If only

I looked at his thread regarding the resurgence of the Russian Navy and find it interesting....the question that immediately springs to mind is 'Where is the money coming from considering the predicament Russia finds itself in economically and what sacrifices will be made to find the funding?'

Well, I would answer your question here. The Russian budget is build around the Budget rule (3 rules actually), which leads to the "essential" spending articles (ie defense spending) to be balanced against the reliable incomes (ie from internal, non foreighn trade related taxes). This means that with the budget squeese we would cut social spending and not defense spending, which would be ~5 percent of GDP this year (not counting industrial programs).

The other thing is that while the external, foreigh curency incomes did decrease (with oil prices going down), due to the free fall of Ruble, the income in Rubles stayed the same, thus the actual real decrease of the budget's income was not critical.

General economics wise World Bank for example expects small GDP growth next year.
http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/pre...-2015-and-2016
Sanctions (and low oil prices) are not killing the Russian economy as some may have expected. Morever, before Ukrainian events, Russian GDP PPP was around the same as German one and significantly ahead of the UK/France (3.5t vs 2.5t USD).

Defense spending is split into the day to day things, the rearmament programs and into the industry programs (ie retooling of critical defense industries). The rearmament programs are:
- GPV2015. This is the rearmament program 2007-2015, and by now is more or less complete for obvious reasons.
- GPV2020. This is the ongoing rearmament program 2011-2020, the program has ~20 trillion Rubles allocated to it, around 5 of which is allocated for the Navy. 5t Rubles is ~100-166b USD depending on the exchange rate. The GPV2020 is the main rearmament program, from which we get the cool new toys.
- GPV2025. This was the proposed rearmament program for 2016-2025, with proposed allocation of ~50 trillion Rubles to it. Sadly it is dead.
- PVK2050. This is the shipbuilding program 2014-2050, insufficient data is availiable about it apart from general 600 ship target.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Yet we continue to stick our nose into international hot spots with a minimum of assets to do the task properly

Black Adder goes Forth - Goodbyeee

Edmund: Don't forget your stick, Lieutenant.

George: Oh no, sir -- wouldn't want to face a machine gun without this!

[Oberon]

AFAIK we're still going to only have six Type 45s, all the Type 42s are withdrawn, and there are thirteen Type 23s. We also have one helicopter carrier and two Amphibious Transport Dock craft, and of course, two Astute SSNs, four Trafalgar SSNs and four Vanguard SSBN submarines.
The Trafalgars are slowly being withdrawn, and the Vanguard situation is still very much under debate, it's likely the fleet will be downsized from four to three with a new design of boat being put forward by BAe, I think the Successor class is the current name of it, whether that will be the official name for the class is yet to be determined.
In regards to the QEII carriers, we're definitely building both, but no one is quite sure whether a) there'll be any F35s to put on them by the time they're finished or b) whether we're keeping both or selling one to India.

Not exactly a fantastic situation for the nation that created the 'wooden wall' but that's the reality of the budget cuts we face, and why I think that our future lies as part of a cohesive force in Europe rather than trying to go it alone with two sticks and a raft made out of old oil barrels.

[ikalugin]

But isn't a 6 T45 force barely adequate for the Carrier escort duties, implying that there is a shortage of ships do to the landing force escort duties and no ships availiable for other things, only T23s.

If we assume that T23s are also used for carrier/task force escorts (6 of those), then only 7 are availiable for other duties, which is completely inadequate in my opinion.

[MGR1]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

But isn't a 6 T45 force barely adequate for the Carrier escort duties, implying that there is a shortage of ships do to the landing force escort duties and no ships availiable for other things, only T23s.

If we assume that T23s are also used for carrier/task force escorts (6 of those), then only 7 are availiable for other duties, which is completely inadequate in my opinion.

The current British government is entirely concerned with domestic concerns and maniacally reducing state spending down to roughly one third of GDP and reducing the UK's financial deficit.

Defence is an easy target as it's a fairly low priority for Joe Public.

As for the carriers, assuming the UK keeps both I'd expect one to be active with the other in reserve status. That's what's been happening with the landing ships HMS Albion and Bulwark.

Mike.

[Mr Quatro]

What is the avg wage per month in Russia ... I'm guessing $730 USD

What is the monthly avg wage in the UK ... I'm thinking $1,500 USD

peoples social needs are becoming more the norm now than the defense of ones country.

The more voice the people have will mean less for the military