Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Catfish

It really would be nice to leave and go somewhere far away, and let them who want kill themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Society

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Oberon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Society

I think no matter how far away one goes to get away from it all. Murder and mayhem will soon catch up. Though it is possible Mars might make it a little hard for others to follow you.

Friedrich Ritter and Dore Strauch went away to Floreana Island in 1929. Unfortunately not long after human nature reared its ugly head there too.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

It's been mighty quiet in Ukraine, have they managed to settle things down a bit over there?

I see the German leader showed up out of respect for the big ceremony.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32682063

Unfortunately I doubt it's going to calm down. There are still worrying signs of a spring/summer offensive that both sides are readying for. Just yesterday the current separatist leader announced that he is "ready to crush the Ukrainian army" if they decide to break the ceasefire and attack. If they indeed are, it wouldn't be above them to use a provocation to deliver such a "crushing". Same goes for the other side, which I hardly trust any more, especially if they're actually bolstered by Western promises of help.

[Bilge_Rat]

I take all the predictions of an upcoming Russian/Rebel offensive with a huge grain of salt. Notice that all these "predictions" are coming from the Ukrainian government and are then parroted by NATO as gospel.

Many in the Ukrainian government do not want the Minsk ceasefire to work and are still pressing the US/EU for weapons and additional sanctions so they can continue the war and recapture East Ukraine.

Putin basically has what he wants, a "frozen conflict", no foreseeable entry of Ukraine in the EU/NATO, Crimea back in Russia. There is no need to continue the offensive westward.

Of course, I could be wrong, Putin is unpredictable.

[CCIP]

Also on point of leaks, Russian media outlet RBC has been starting to publish excerpts and summaries of the yet-unreleased document that was being prepared by the murdered politician Nemtsov at the time of his death. Nemtsov's sources alleged the following:

- No fewer than 150 Russian soldiers died in the fighting during August 2014

- Approximately 70 Russian soldiers (including 17 airborne troops from Ivanovo) were killed in the January-February fighting near Debaltsevo

- Approximately 53 billion roubles ($ 1 billion) from the Russian budget has been spent on the war in southeast Ukraine in the course of 10 months

- Approximately 80 billion roubles ($ 1.5 billion) from the Russian budget was spent on refugees from the conflict

- Estimates by economists of the cost to everyday Russians from the annexation of Crimea include approximately 2 trillion roubles ($ 39 billion) in terms of lost actual wages, and 750 billion roubles ($ 15 billion) in terms of wiped out savings.

(source in Russian: http://top.rbc.ru/politics/12/05/201...794770c68a8207 )

[Oberon]

RBC shut down due to an previously unknown breach of tax laws in five...four...three...

[CCIP]

The OpenRussia site, run by Khodorkovsky as far as I know, has published the full report which was being prepared by Nemtsov before his death, titled "Putin. War." (in Russian) here: https://openrussia.org/post/view/4803

Some of the main highlights:

-Firstly, it lays the blame chiefly on Putin and his staff for the war, suggesting that the main motivation for escalating the conflict has been electoral politics. The goal is to secure Putin's power base by effectively radicalizing most of the Russian population around a new nationalist agenda. It suggests that the media has been instrumental in setting the agenda - and that the consolidation of media under government control in Russia over the last couple of years is related to this.

-Secondly, it reports that the Russian military personnel involved in the takeover of Crimea had been briefed and dispatched from the start of February 2014, preceding the violent turn of events on the Maidan in Kiev. That is to say, the report alleges that Russia's annexation was not a reaction to the violence in the Ukraine, but was executed at a pre-planned time.

-Thirdly, it suggests that Russian forces had saved the separatists in the Donetsk region by intervening directly in August 2014 - up until then, the Ukrainian army had been making significant progress in their advance on the separatists, whose efforts were collapsing. The report alleges that this rapid intervention was decisive, and was the only way that the separatist structure has survived. The report also notes that the majority of current separatist leadership, which has changed quite a bit since its early days, are Russian citizens. It thus concludes that the separatist side is effectively under Russian control, and has been since at least fall 2014. It further alleges that all key decisions and information releases by rebel leadership are managed directly by the Kremlin.
The report goes on to cite numerous interviews with separatist and Russian officials, as well as stories of soldiers captured on Ukrainian territory.

-Fourthly, the report alleges that the so-called "volunteers" fighting on the separatist side are better called "mercenaries", and are paid $1000-1500 per month. This is in excess of the average Russian monthly wage of approximately $620. The report suggests that this money comes directly from the Russian federal budget.

-Fifthly (and I expected this one!), the report details a significant role played by Kadyrovites (i.e. militia controlled by the Chechen president Ramzan Kadyrov) in sustaining the separatist effort. This probably has significant implications in Nemtsov's murder, which has been blamed on Kadyrov (to nobody's surprise). Unlike other high-ranking members of the current Russian regime, Kadyrov has publicly admitted sending armed fighters to the Donbass. The report notes that he has issued lavish awards to many members of his security forces for their participation in the Ukrainian conflict.

-Sixthly, the report looks into the shooting down of MH17, and agrees with findings that it was shot down by the Buk M1. It also points to the previously-suggested launch site from the village of Torez, which was under separatist control at the time of the shooting.

Finally, it also looks at the economic and human costs of the conflict, which were mentioned before.

[Dmitry Markov]

Firstly - seems like authors of this "report" have some strange logic - reading this one may consider that reunification of Crimea and Ukrainian civil war either has no relations with coup d'etats in Kiev or that it was our "evil" President who financed "revolution" in Kiev to have a starting point which would allow us to return Crimea... And then again majority of Crimeans voted for reunification with Russia whether Nemtsov and his team liked it or not.

Secondly this work seems to be a western press-oriented "product" rather than anything beeing able to interest our people. To be the latter it should have been done more thoroughly and include any materials of real quality but "interviews with tankists from Buryatia" which were chewen aloft and alow some months ago.

The way this thing is done it won't make me run around tearing my hairs out of my head and crying "God!What have I done! Why have I voted for Putin?" :-)

Thirdly - If I were Ramzan Ahmatovich (which I am not) rumors of third-hand wannabe-politician preparing a "report" of such a "quality" wouldn't make me move a toe, not to mention planning an untidy assassination with a picture of a Kremlin in a background. Let's not think a Head of Chechen Republic is that strange. It should have been some business or some personal affront ( Caucasians never forgive an affronts) that was a real purpose of Nemtsov's lot.


Just some thoughts

[XabbaRus]

I haven't read the report so won't comment. However as far as Kadyrov is concerned, I would be more worried about him than anything Ukraine can throw at Russia. Kadyrov is a nut and I've said this before, he cannot be controlled. I think members of the Russian elite and the FSB have realised this now, hence his henchmen being lifted for the Nemtsov murder.

I'm actually curious how long Kadyrov will be around if and when Putin steps down?

[mapuc]

Sorry to dig this thread up, I thought why start a new thread when there already are one about the same issue.

Found this article in a Danish news paper with a link to an English version of it

The heat seems to get hotter

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...source=twitter

Markus

[Aktungbby]

^Just to bring it 'up to speed' background wise: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/for-alleged-russian-hacker-a-visit-to-amsterdam-is-a-costly-trip/2015/01/30/1e240c96-a33c-11e4-9f89-561284a573f8_story.html & http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/07/hacker-ring-stole-160-million-credit-cards/#more-21899

[mapuc]

Wasn't sure If I should dig the old Ukraine-thread up and continue from the last entering or start a new thread-if moderators think it belongs to the Ukraine thread then feel free to merge it.

Back to story. Maybe we don't hear so much about Ukraine these days, nevertheless the two superpowers military build-up continues

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/...y-russia-nato/

These are responses to Russia’s provocations,” Carter told CBS News while in Estonia, adding that it was “aggressive rhetoric, aggressive behavior – the kind of thing that doesn’t belong in a Europe” of today

Markus

[Oberon]

Can't be too much longer before one side or the other starts the much vaunted 'summer offensive'.

[Rockstar]

I used to think it was NATO breaking some agreement not to enlarge that was poking at the Bear. But after reading this, it appears no such promises were made.


http://csis.org/files/publication/twq09aprilkramer.pdf

[yubba]

,,,http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...reign-ships-d/ man it didn't take long to take that story down,,, well try here,,,http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...ious/28935549/ I hope Russia kicks our commie butts that will learn us for crying over an old battle flag,, while our cities burn.