Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine

[Bilge_Rat]

Another hopeful sign, the EU is starting to break the Taboo about ignoring Russian Army units in East Ukraine:

The EU has broken its taboo on referring to Russian forces in east Ukraine in its official documents.

It said in its Official Journal on Monday (16 February) that Russian deputy defence minister Anatoly Antonov is being added to its blacklist because he is “involved in supporting the deployment of Russian troops in Ukraine”.

It listed first deputy defence minister Arkady Bakhin for the same reason.

It also listed Andrei Kartapolov, a senior Russian military commander, for being “involved in shaping and implementing the military campaign of the Russian forces in Ukraine”.

The text in the legal gazette was signed off by EU foreign relations chief Federica Mogherini.

https://euobserver.com/foreign/127667

Unless Putin radically changes course soon, it wont be long until military aid is flowing to Ukraine.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

(such as withdrawing heavy armaments ...)

That seems to be the current sticking point for both sides, and since OCSE inspectors are unable to enter the Debaltsevo area... It's the traditional 'Who blinks first', the separatists probably don't want to withdraw their heavy weaponry until the Ukrainian forces do, and vice versa for the Ukrainian forces...not to mention that the separatists probably have a strong desire to press home their current advantage and eliminate as many Ukrainian forces as they can so that there will be less to face them come summer.

[Dowly]

Yup, both sides are saying that they withdraw their heavy weapons, if the other side does so first.

@Bilge_Rat: How do you know those are T-72B3s? I dont think the B3 is externally very much different from older models.

[CCIP]

One of the issues with Debaltsevo specifically is that it ended up in a sort of grey area. The separatists are claiming that it's theirs under ceasefire terms (because they had previously controlled it), the Ukrainian army refuses to withdraw.

[antikristuseke]

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-a...llery-attacks/

The Bellingcat investigation team used internationally-recognized methods and satellite imagery to analyze a total of 1,353 artillery craters in eastern Ukraine and determine their trajectories. We located firing positions that closely matched these trajectories, all of which were inside Russian territory with one exception (which was less than 2km from the Russian border).

Three artillery attack case studies were investigated in this report: Amvrosiivka (14 July 2014), between Dolzhanskaya-Capital mine and the village of Panchenkove (16 July to 8 August 2014), and Khmelnytskyi (25 July 2014). Artillery crater analysis concluded that there were a total of ten primary attack trajectories across all the case studies. From each of these attack trajectories a firing position was identified. Nine of these firing positions were – without any doubt – within the territory of Russia, with three within 400 to 800m of a military camp. The one position in Ukraine was near Chervonopartyzansk, within the territory of Ukraine 1.2km south, and 1.5km north of the border with Russia.

I have no idea how credible that report is, but if it is true, this is fairly damning.

ikalugin, about those medals, never though they were official Russian issue, given that they were for sale with prices underneath it looked like a private enterprise, I was just curious if it was a real thing or someones idea of a joke. Thanks.

[XabbaRus]

Ah yes bellingcat. I'm just not convinced. I know the guy is the poster child for "citizen journalism" but after the press were proclaiming him a chemical weapons expert I turned off. Something doesn't add up. Given 12 months ago he was sitting at home playing World of Warcraft.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-a...llery-attacks/


I have no idea how credible that report is, but if it is true, this is fairly damning.

ikalugin, about those medals, never though they were official Russian issue, given that they were for sale with prices underneath it looked like a private enterprise, I was just curious if it was a real thing or someones idea of a joke. Thanks.

Now that is interesting! This is the sort of stuff I'd like to see more of as evidence goes, but only if it's backed up by official reports after. I hope there are official investigations that follow it.

Otherwise, would not surprise me. The recent pictures of landed/unexploded projectiles also point to use of Tornado systems pretty definitively. Wherever they're being shot from, these are obviously Russian artillery systems.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Dowly

@Bilge_Rat: How do you know those are T-72B3s? I dont think the B3 is externally very much different from older models.

these have been identified as SOSNA-U thermal sights which is apparently only found on the latest T-72B3 model.

[mapuc]

Some more thoughts

Some one wrote that (name of weapon type, who I forgot the name off) need a trained crew.

1. Does Ukraine have similar weapons in their arsenal as Russia has been send to Eastern Ukraine ?

2. If yes, aren't many of the Ukrainian soldier been trained to use these weapons among these even soldier who live in Eastern Ukraine.

If no in both question, then it must be russian soldier that are controlling these weapons or ?

Markus

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

these have been identified as SOSNA-U thermal sights which is apparently only found on the latest T-72B3 model.

That rectangular 'window'? No, it's on many many many maaany T-72s. No idea what it is, periscope I would assume, but it definitely isnt some Russian only equipment.

See, that's my problem. The Loyalists are trying to force the public opinion against Russia.
And the West is with them. They show us blurry satellite photos of.. err.. something and say "Yep, RUSSIANS!".

I am definitely not on the Russian side here, hell I'm a Finn ffs.
But the past week or two, it has been just Loyalists throwing crap and hoping it'll stick, none of it hasnt.

West needs some actual, concrete evidence of Russian units being involved, before they make the decision to supply Ukraine with military aid.

[Catfish]

^ @Dowly: Exactly that.

Our german (transatlantic young leaders lmao) media showing some russian tanks in Georgien from years ago, and selling us this as russian tanks being now on ukrainian soil. Have done that repeatedly, and everytime proven as falso, so they had to excuse, everytime.
Liars.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Dowly

See, that's my problem. The Loyalists are trying to force the public opinion against Russia.
And the West is with them. They show us blurry satellite photos of.. err.. something and say "Yep, RUSSIANS!"...

West needs some actual, concrete evidence of Russian units being involved, before they make the decision to supply Ukraine with military aid.

If the West is ready to accept blurry satellite photos of... er... something without actual concrete evidence, is it possible that the West has already decided that the Russians are to blame, evidence be damned.

[Bilge_Rat]

how to spot a T-72B3:



now compare that to the three tanks in the video I posted.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Betonov

If the West is ready to accept blurry satellite photos of... er... something without actual concrete evidence, is it possible that the West has already decided that the Russians are to blame, evidence be damned.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know.

What I know is:
We've been show blurry satellite images, showing blastmarks and rectangulars, identified as Russians. I would like to see those original high res images.

Videos of Russians tanks, that Ukraine doesn't use. Still waiting for anyone to point out what makes those tanks Russian tanks?

There's more, but lastly, if there are so many Russian units in Ukraine,
where are the bodies? Where are photos of them?
If they are fighting, surely there'd be some evidence of them being there?

But.. we got nothing, just words saying "RUSSIANS!"

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Dowly

There's more, but lastly, if there are so many Russian units in Ukraine,
where are the bodies? Where are photos of them?
If they are fighting, surely there'd be some evidence of them being there?

But.. we got nothing, just words saying "RUSSIANS!"

mass secret burials in Pskov and mobile crematories are nothing. ok.

I still have a few posts to reply to but I'll do it in 'due time'.