The AC-130J Ghostrider Will Get A Big Ass Gun Afterall

[Stealhead]

Well the Hellfire has a limited range about 6 miles the 105mm of course exceeds that. An Apache is typically only going to have ten to fifteen of loiter before its bingo fuel or when its Winchester (out of ammo). Then it'll have to fly back and get rearmed and refuled. Therefore an enemy can simply choose to disengage when they know the Apache is present and then reengage when it leaves. The Taliban became very skilled at this.

Not sure what the Specter has but surely it is on par and more than likely superior to the Apaches optics and guidance. Of course the Apache is really designed to fight a technicaly equal enemy force originally being destined to destroy Soviet AFVs get rearmed rinse wash repeat. The Specter is more focused on support of special forces. So it brings the pain when a smaller force is in trouble. Though a single Specter back in 2004 pretty much by itself kept enemy forces in Fullujah from over running Marine positions.

I'd say that the Apache is a scapel the AC-130 is a sledge hammer. As you said. Hellfire is a good tank\AFV killer and they did make thermoberic versions though not ideal for antipersonnel.

A change for the Apache is soon it will have to scout and hunt as the Kiowa will be retired it had a better optics system. The D and new E (which is a D with improved power or in effect the American version of the Westland Apache) the D was unable to carry the mast mounted radar in Iraq or Afghanistan while the Westland version did UK and NL).

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Well the Hellfire has a limited range about 6 miles the 105mm of course exceeds that. An Apache is typically only going to have ten to fifteen of loiter before its bingo fuel or when its Winchester (out of ammo). Then it'll have to fly back and get rearmed and refuled. Therefore an enemy can simply choose to disengage when they know the Apache is present and then reengage when it leaves. The Taliban became very skilled at this.

Not sure what the Specter has but surely it is on par and more than likely superior to the Apaches optics and guidance. Of course the Apache is really designed to fight a technicaly equal enemy force originally being destined to destroy Soviet AFVs get rearmed rinse wash repeat. The Specter is more focused on support of special forces. So it brings the pain when a smaller force is in trouble. Though a single Specter back in 2004 pretty much by itself kept enemy forces in Fullujah from over running Marine positions.

I'd say that the Apache is a scapel the AC-130 is a sledge hammer. As you said. Hellfire is a good tank\AFV killer and they did make thermoberic versions though not ideal for antipersonnel.

A change for the Apache is soon it will have to scout and hunt as the Kiowa will be retired it had a better optics system. The D and new E (which is a D with improved power or in effect the American version of the Westland Apache) the D was unable to carry the mast mounted radar in Iraq or Afghanistan while the Westland version did UK and NL).

Fully agree, especially when it comes to the scalpel vs sledgehammer comparison. In something like actions in Afghanistan and Iraq you don't really need scalpels, you need sledgehammers, using scalpels is not cost effective and the Apache, as good as it is, is not in an area that it was designed for. The Spectre, being a descendent of Spooky (which I misidentified in my last post, saying Spooky instead of Spectre...sorry about that) is ideal for operations in Afghanistan, as the Spooky was in Vietnam.
I didn't realise that the Kiowa was being retired though, that's going to make things difficult for the Apache, the Kiowa/Apache team was ideal in the sort of warfare we face now, just as the Littlebird/Cobra team did well in Vietnam. So that's not good, although at least the Apache is getting some upgrades in the near future, and it's nice to see that the engine upgrade we put in is going to be rolled out to the US Apaches too. Reminds me of the P-51. But the Kiowa had a damn good optics system that was well placed like the Longbow radar, and unless the E includes something like that, it's going to force the Apache to rely solely on the radar which is useful against armour and the like, but pretty useless against infantry.

[Stealhead]

I recon that the argument to retire the Kiowa is largely due to the advanced Longbow radar. It is highly capable to put it mildly. Of course your still forcing one airframe to perform two jobs which is not always ideal. Multi-role can be good at the same time sometimes you still want a weapon that is designed to do one thing very well.

I'm guessing that each Apache unit will have the Longbow Radome equipped birds serve as scouts. In fact Longbow can datalink with any other Apache allowing it to provide targeting data to any linked Apache and if a radar guided Hellfire is used one Longbow radome equipped Apache can send the data to one without the radome and have it fire its missile and the other Apache does the guidance. Allowing only one bird to expose itself to fire while the other only need expose its radome and with radar you don't need the laser. Though there are tricks with the laser as well that allow pop up attacks if the crew is skilled the missile only need lasing for launch and terminal phase. Meaning if you're good at mathematics you can only lase for 10 or 20% of the flight.

I think the planned ratio is one of every four has the complete Longbow package with radome. And now with the E models more powerful engines they don't have to remove the radomes in certain environments.

A book written by a British Apache pilot I'd strongly recommend is Apache: Inside the Cockpit of the Worlds Most Deadly Flying Machine. I've read it twice its that good and informative. It gives you an idea just what a Longbow Apache can do.

By the way you mentioned Spooky I'm guessing that may not have known that there where two other converted gunships used during Vietnam the AC-119 and the AC-123 there where also experiments run at Eglin AFB in FL using a modified B-57 Canberra which had a downwards firing Vulcan gun it was slewed into position for firing. The B-57 gunship never went past the testing stage partly because they had a better idea of converting it to carry the original Pave Way I and some FLIR equipment allowing it to night prowl without the need of cannon.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I recon that the argument to retire the Kiowa is largely due to the advanced Longbow radar. It is highly capable to put it mildly. Of course your still forcing one airframe to perform two jobs which is not always ideal. Multi-role can be good at the same time sometimes you still want a weapon that is designed to do one thing very well.

I'm guessing that each Apache unit will have the Longbow Radome equipped birds serve as scouts. In fact Longbow can datalink with any other Apache allowing it to provide targeting data to any linked Apache and if a radar guided Hellfire is used one Longbow radome equipped Apache can send the data to one without the radome and have it fire its missile and the other Apache does the guidance. Allowing only one bird to expose itself to fire while the other only need expose its radome and with radar you don't need the laser. Though there are tricks with the laser as well that allow pop up attacks if the crew is skilled the missile only need lasing for launch and terminal phase. Meaning if you're good at mathematics you can only lase for 10 or 20% of the flight.

I think the planned ratio is one of every four has the complete Longbow package with radome. And now with the E models more powerful engines they don't have to remove the radomes in certain environments.

A book written by a British Apache pilot I'd strongly recommend is Apache: Inside the Cockpit of the Worlds Most Deadly Flying Machine. I've read it twice its that good and informative. It gives you an idea just what a Longbow Apache can do.

Ah, Ed Macy, yes...I do believe I've read that one, IIRC he details the rescue of L/Cpl Fords body from Jugroom fort? It's the multi-tasking that makes me a bit concerned, I have no doubt that the Longbow radar can paint a good target, but in an environment with the potential for collateral damage surely it's better to get the good old Mark 1 eyeball on the target just to be sure the area is clear before you drop a Hellfire on it?
I suppose though, you could probably loiter at maximum distance and use the optics, the Apache is pretty damn quiet at long ranges and the optics are very good.