The AC-130J Ghostrider Will Get A Big Ass Gun Afterall

Jimbuna · 01-30-15, 07:50 AM

I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one of these!!

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the...all-1682493641

Stealhead · 01-30-15, 08:50 AM

Well the 105 is not new the Vietnam are Specters had them and they had them in the early 2000s as well. So in my book its a new old gun. In Vietnam the 105 was the primary killing weapon. There's footage from Afghanistan of the old 105 in use.

Jimbuna · 01-30-15, 10:46 AM

Rgr that, reminds me a little of 'Puff The Magic Dragon'.

Platapus · 01-30-15, 06:18 PM

The AC-130 is a very effective weapon in today's combat environment.

Stealhead · 01-30-15, 10:59 PM

As I recall the original Specter had four 20mm vulcans and two 40mm Bofors. Experience quickly lead them to favor the 40mm as these had better standoff range. So they removed two of the vulcans and placed a 105mm cannon in the rear.

My uncle served as the TV\FLIR operator in the reserves for a time. He said that the 40mm rounds being WWII and Korea vintage often where duds and they had to unjam them often. I think they where thinking of using a single barrel cannon in 25 or 30mm range similar to the Bushmaster used on Bradleys and several USMC AFVs. These would replace the Vulcan and bofors. Some had the two 20mm vulcans replaced with a single 25mm.

I would say with modern technology a single chain type cannon like the bushmaster and a 105mm would be very effective. Now even 25 and 30mm rounds can have proximity burst capacity. Just imagine air burst 30mm shells and spot on 105mm raining down on you. Pretty much you're wasted.

I guess an Apache comes close except an Apache can't loiter and its 30mm is not as accurate. Flechette tipped rockets are very deadly but loadout is limited. Same issue with the hellfire. A Specter can loiter and drop 105 rounds all night and its gun is only covering you while arty at a FB also has to cover other areas. You can simply wait for the Apache to run out of fuel or munitions with a Specter you can't wait him out.

Oberon · 01-31-15, 12:33 AM

What would be more fuel efficient though, a Spooky loitering or an Apache hovering? Also, does the Spooky have the laser lock ability of the Apache? I imagine it does, most modern ground attack aircraft do. I imagine the stand-off distance is greater in the Apache coupled with the Hellfire and Longbow systems...but, that being said, I ponder if a Spooky could use a targetting computer to fire a shell from stand-off distance and have it hit a target lasered by a forward observer.
I mean, Spooky usually needs to loiter at altitude and within visual (camera) distance of the target, the Apache can hide behind a hill and fire its Hellfires out of enemy AAA and SAM range and those Hellfires can hit their targets as required. Also, I'm not sure about the on board electronics of the Spooky, but I know the Apache can use its Longbow radar and peek over hilltops and tree lines to paint the enemy (as can the Kiowa IIRC, only that can also use its camera and lase targets whilst hiding behind hills and trees) and then send a multitude of Hellfires over the hill top to meet them. Admittedly though, the cost per Hellfire versus the cost of an artillery shell, it's a completely different magnitude.

I guess, really, what it boils down to is different applications for each platform, the Spooky is, quite literally the artillery, an area affect weapon, whereas the Apache is more like a sniper, a precise long range killing machine. Honestly, for the kind of warfare we're in now, a Spooky will do just fine, an Apache is a bit like the F-35, overkill and overpriced for desert counter-insurgency operations. But the Apache has her role, and as we drift into Cold War II: Cold Harder, she'll be back in Europe where she belongs.

(Note: All statements are the written confessions of an Apache fanboy and as such may contain trace elements of bias and AGM-114)

01-30-15, 07:50 AM	#1
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,590 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The AC-130J Ghostrider Will Get A Big Ass Gun Afterall I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one of these!! http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the...all-1682493641 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-30-15, 10:46 AM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,590 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Rgr that, reminds me a little of 'Puff The Magic Dragon'. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-30-15, 06:18 PM	#4
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,375 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	The AC-130 is a very effective weapon in today's combat environment. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-30-15, 08:50 AM	#2
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Well the 105 is not new the Vietnam are Specters had them and they had them in the early 2000s as well. So in my book its a new old gun. In Vietnam the 105 was the primary killing weapon. There's footage from Afghanistan of the old 105 in use.

01-30-15, 10:59 PM	#5
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	As I recall the original Specter had four 20mm vulcans and two 40mm Bofors. Experience quickly lead them to favor the 40mm as these had better standoff range. So they removed two of the vulcans and placed a 105mm cannon in the rear. My uncle served as the TV\FLIR operator in the reserves for a time. He said that the 40mm rounds being WWII and Korea vintage often where duds and they had to unjam them often. I think they where thinking of using a single barrel cannon in 25 or 30mm range similar to the Bushmaster used on Bradleys and several USMC AFVs. These would replace the Vulcan and bofors. Some had the two 20mm vulcans replaced with a single 25mm. I would say with modern technology a single chain type cannon like the bushmaster and a 105mm would be very effective. Now even 25 and 30mm rounds can have proximity burst capacity. Just imagine air burst 30mm shells and spot on 105mm raining down on you. Pretty much you're wasted. I guess an Apache comes close except an Apache can't loiter and its 30mm is not as accurate. Flechette tipped rockets are very deadly but loadout is limited. Same issue with the hellfire. A Specter can loiter and drop 105 rounds all night and its gun is only covering you while arty at a FB also has to cover other areas. You can simply wait for the Apache to run out of fuel or munitions with a Specter you can't wait him out.

01-31-15, 12:33 AM	#6
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	What would be more fuel efficient though, a Spooky loitering or an Apache hovering? Also, does the Spooky have the laser lock ability of the Apache? I imagine it does, most modern ground attack aircraft do. I imagine the stand-off distance is greater in the Apache coupled with the Hellfire and Longbow systems...but, that being said, I ponder if a Spooky could use a targetting computer to fire a shell from stand-off distance and have it hit a target lasered by a forward observer. I mean, Spooky usually needs to loiter at altitude and within visual (camera) distance of the target, the Apache can hide behind a hill and fire its Hellfires out of enemy AAA and SAM range and those Hellfires can hit their targets as required. Also, I'm not sure about the on board electronics of the Spooky, but I know the Apache can use its Longbow radar and peek over hilltops and tree lines to paint the enemy (as can the Kiowa IIRC, only that can also use its camera and lase targets whilst hiding behind hills and trees) and then send a multitude of Hellfires over the hill top to meet them. Admittedly though, the cost per Hellfire versus the cost of an artillery shell, it's a completely different magnitude. I guess, really, what it boils down to is different applications for each platform, the Spooky is, quite literally the artillery, an area affect weapon, whereas the Apache is more like a sniper, a precise long range killing machine. Honestly, for the kind of warfare we're in now, a Spooky will do just fine, an Apache is a bit like the F-35, overkill and overpriced for desert counter-insurgency operations. But the Apache has her role, and as we drift into Cold War II: Cold Harder, she'll be back in Europe where she belongs. (Note: All statements are the written confessions of an Apache fanboy and as such may contain trace elements of bias and AGM-114)