TDC on attack map

[pdiddy]

So when I play the German side, I can tweak my solution on the attack map with the displayed TDC dials. When I play a U.S. sub, I have to switch back to one of the scopes and then switch back to the map to check. Is it possible to mod the game for TDC input on the attack map for Fleet Boats?

[pdiddy]

I guess I'm asking if there is a mod that has the TDC input dials (top right of the screen) on the Attack Map.

[TorpX]

As I recall, they are on the attack map.

RFB limits map contacts, so the attack map has no real function in RFB. AFAIK, you can use the TDC inputs on the attack map, in other mods without problems.

What version of the game are you playing?

[Sniper297]

No, he's talking about the stadimeter/speed/AOB gadget that's the pullout on the upper right of the periscope/TBT screens. Attack map has the torpedo tube status (lower right) and PK/torpedo settings (left) displays, but no AOB/stadimeter/speed input gadget. Never heard of a mod for one, seems to me it would be more complicated to use anyway.

One thing the fleet boats had that the U boats didn't was the Position Keeper, click that button to turn it red and it will keep track of where the target should be when the scope is down - assuming no heading or speed changes. Periodic updates need to be done from periscope observations, and of course if the target is zigzagging the Position Keeper is completely useless.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

No, he's talking about the stadimeter/speed/AOB gadget that's the pullout on the upper right of the periscope/TBT screens.

Ah, ok.

Well I don't see how that can be put in, since the stadimeter is useless without a view of the target.

[Sniper297]

Agree. I suppose you could change the speed and fine tune the AOB using the outline of the target (assuming map contact updates on) but that would require the standard map's protractor as well. What I'm puzzling over is how it could be useful for anything, but then again I usually use auto targeting anyway.

[pdiddy]

I'm sorry I'm not being so clear. I'm using RFB 2.0 with TMO plot so I get the grease marks, sonar lines and torpedo solution. Here's my habit pattern:

1. Solve for target speed & course/AOB (using nav map)
2. Switch to scope/TBT view (input speed and AOB to TDC).
3. Solve for target bearing & range (using optics/stadimeter),
4. Check solution on attack map,
5. Fire torpedo.

When I play a german sub, I can make changes to the solution (if needed) right on the attack map. I.e, if range is a bit off, I can dial it in. If I want a spread angle, I can mess with that and see exactly what it will look like. If the speed is a little off (or changes) and is not matching up with the sonar bearing, I can adjust the gyro bearing. I would like to be able to do the same thing on a Fleet Boat. I believe it is realistic as the TDC plotting team would be in the conning tower checking all the inputs. Whoever was on the scope (CO/XO) would be able to stop looking through the scope, turn his head left/right and check the map that the TDC team marked up (as I understand it.)

After using CapnScurvy's excellent OTC mod (with TMO) with the modified range dial, I thought it must be possible and perhaps a fairly easy mod (for a modder that is, not for me!)

Anyway, long story short, I was just wondering if there was a mod out there that made this possible. I'm guessing there isn't and also surmising I'm the only one (or one of the few) that would even want it.

Never would have thought of it until I played a German sub in Op Monsun. Being able to tweak the solution on the attack map is so sweeeeet. Those Germans can't hardly miss!

Maybe this thread should have been "Why are there TDC dials on German attack maps but not American ones?"

[Sniper297]

My last experience with Das Boot was SHIII, I never bought SH4 1.5 or SH5 so have no idea how they work. I see your point, but the main reason I hardly ever play with manual targeting is because to me the interface is just too clumsy and doesn't feel realistic. Using the scope/TBT there's no actual way to manually dial in the range, you have to use the stadimeter to make any change to the range dial. Optionally you can make one ping with active sonar then click the "send range to TDC" for a more accurate range. In real life that would be dangerous, but in game the destroyers pay absolutely no attention to the sub pinging them.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by pdiddy

I believe it is realistic as the TDC plotting team would be in the conning tower checking all the inputs. Whoever was on the scope (CO/XO) would be able to stop looking through the scope, turn his head left/right and check the map that the TDC team marked up (as I understand it.)

It really isn't, but I'll waive the fine, since you're new here.

It isn't a question of who does what, so much as how well could they do it.

Being able to tweak the solution on the attack map is so sweeeeet. Those Germans can't hardly miss!

This is why it is not realistic. Most torpedo attacks failed. It just wasn't that easy.

Map contacts are an all or nothing thing. Yes, your crew should be doing the plotting chores, but their plot can only be as good as your observations. Map-contacts makes them nearly perfect, and in real-time!

That said, I am a advocate in people playing the way they want.

Maybe this thread should have been "Why are there TDC dials on German attack maps but not American ones?"

I haven't fiddled around with the German side of things, but a lot of stuff in the game is contrived. This applies to both sides. Some things are "automatic" in the game, but required crew actions and effort in real-life. I don't know of any advantage the German fire-control devices had over the USN TDC in real-life. Some players seem to think so, however.

Here's my habit pattern:

1. Solve for target speed & course/AOB (using nav map)
2. Switch to scope/TBT view (input speed and AOB to TDC).
3. Solve for target bearing & range (using optics/stadimeter),
4. Check solution on attack map,
5. Fire torpedo.

I don't see why you can't do steps 2 and 3 at the same time. If you are using map-contacts, you can obtain course/Aob, speed, range, and bearing with 2 spaced observations. Then you only need to decide how to spread your torps, and fire (on third observation). Checking the attack map shouldn't really be necessary. Firing solutions needn't be perfect, after all.

Without map-contacts, it's a whole 'nother ball game! You might do a dozen observations, and still not be sure of your quarry.

[pdiddy]

Optionally you can make one ping with active sonar then click the "send range to TDC" for a more accurate range. In real life that would be dangerous, but in game the destroyers pay absolutely no attention to the sub pinging them.

Thanks for the intel! I've never tried pinging a ship (or getting depth under keel) if I even thought an enemy with depth charges may be around!!!

Without map-contacts, it's a whole 'nother ball game! You might do a dozen observations, and still not be sure of your quarry.

I find myself constantly in tension between "as much realism as possible" and "enjoying the game" I want to play realistically but after about the third night of running patrol grids at 128 TC without making anything blow-up (man, I love those explosions too much) I start thinking that more than one real Skipper didn't sink a single ship in their whole career because as you said " It just wasn't that easy."

I play SH5 with real nav occasionally. (De facto no map contacts with "estimated" celestial or ded reckoning fixes every two hours (and when asked for) - a great mod that SH4/3 can't offer in the same way). I can't say I prefer playing as a German Kaleun sinking U.S. (and allied) ships, but if you get past that, SH5 (modded) is a great game.

It really isn't, but I'll waive the fine, since you're new here.

And thanks for cutting me some slack. I can see I'm going to have to tighten up my game around here!

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by pdiddy

I play SH5 with real nav occasionally. (De facto no map contacts with "estimated" celestial or ded reckoning fixes every two hours (and when asked for) - a great mod that SH4/3 can't offer in the same way). I can't say I prefer playing as a German Kaleun sinking U.S. (and allied) ships, but if you get past that, SH5 (modded) is a great game.

Sounds interesting. I don't have SH5, but I did try the Celestial Nav system that was put together for SH4. Unfortunately, it was too exhausting (for me anyway).

***

Using the scope/TBT there's no actual way to manually dial in the range, you have to use the stadimeter to make any change to the range dial.

With RFB 2.0, you can manually put in range, bearing, etc., etc. With range, you are limited to 11,000 yds., but that is not too bad.