Terrorist attack in Paris on French magazine

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Which governments? When?

Since France is the issue. In 2013, Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius distanced the French government from the weekly’s in-your-face criticism of Islamism and Islam and warned Charlie Hebdo not to push provocation too far. I'm not saying leaders don't defend the right, but unlike with any other religion, numerous comments to be nice, respectful....but to what religion.

"All along, French policymakers have been divided between a desire to make a deal with terror groups in the hope of securing immunity and the necessity of fighting them with all it takes.
In the 1970s, France purchased immunity for its civilian aircraft by providing regular unofficial “financial contributions” to Palestinian groups involved in the business of hijacking.
In the 1980s, Paris bought an end to Tehran-sponsored terror attacks, which had claimed dozens of lives in Paris and other cities, by releasing over a million dollars in frozen Iranian assets.
In the 1990s, Algerian terror groups were bribed into offering immunity to France by a decision to ignore their fundraising and recruiting activities on French territory."

"Thus, France was the first Western power to impose a ban on arms exports to Israel, and the first to allow Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization to open an “embassy” in its capital.
In 1996, a French refusal to put several organizations including Hezbollah and Hamas on a terrorist list prevented the adoption of a G-7 agreement on 45 measures to combat global terrorism."

full....http://nypost.com/2015/01/07/terror-...f-appeasement/

France has done precious little to stem the growing tide of Jew-hatred and anti-Israelism that has gripped that country. The result, the Jews exodus, the Muslim build Islamic cultural communities...


"On Dec. 2, the French parliament voted overwhelmingly to demand that the French government immediately recognize the “State of Palestine.” Not after negotiations. Not with Israel’s agreement. Just do it right away, whether the Israelis like it or not. And the vote wasn’t even close—339 in favor, 151 against." Appease one, ignore the other....

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-fi...es-appeasement

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1896244.html

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/v...gory.asp?id=66

[mapuc]

If this "expert" who's statement was to be read in a Swedish news paper, we are at war with muslim.

Not every muslim and not by us the people from the west but by these jihadist.

These jihadist see their religion(Islam) at war against us the infidels

In their twisted mind every muslim is at war against us.

Here's my own add to her statement
Our own twisted people, see us, every one of us at war against muslims

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MH

Nazi not Nazi blah blah lets leave it out....
If you take what Hitler said about communism then most western leaders during cold war had been nazzis , including the ones that wore hats and grew mustache.
Bottom line Sky....what do you want?
We all know there is a problem , Oberon too....he simply thinks everyone is out to nuke them all.
Now ... what do you want to be done about the issue?

Sometimes people give me the impression that I am just about to post my very first post in this forum ever.

You guys complain if I repeat myself unasked. And when I do not repeat myself, you ask me for it. And then complain that I do it, and that it always is so long.



Haven't I already given many parts of that wanted answer in here? Haven't I...? And in other threads?

We must strop weaseling, and unconditionally demand and enforce compliance, and integration. Failing in any of these two, means being kicked out. We must insist on those staying here accepting critical self-reflection. We must stop voting for politicians that impose more and more Muslim migration onto us, and self-denying multiculturalism that comes at costs that always are our costs. We must not make "radical" (=real) Muslims feeling welcomed, and find motivations for them to stay- we must motivate them to leave, and where they violate our rules and values, like hate preachers, repeated criminal offenders, and members of known fanatical schools like in Germany the Salafists, we must throw them out, and never let them return . We must support those who want a critical self-anaylsis of Islam, and a critical examination of the violent, racist, intolerant and anti-feminist demands by Muhammad (of which there are quite some). We must drive out foreign Muslim institutions that foster recruiting and radicalisation of young Muslims, we must stop Muslim countries like turkey and Saudi arabia and Quatar financing their own institutions in our coutnries where they practice radicalization, recruiting, and motivating for supremacist ideology.

We must stop appeasing them, but confront them. We must end accepting special rights based on "religious reasons", and must stop accepting exceptions from the rules for religious reasons. We must enforce the abandoning of Shariah laws and courts, and the unconditional surrender of Muslim parallel justice that is now reality in almost every Western country and that erodes the validity of the laws of the state and the authority of the police and courts, fosters separatism and self-isolation, and establishes underground structures of power and influence directing Muslim communities on behalf of orthodox traditional rules and scripture.

And those who do not behave, and cost more than they pay in anyway, we must throw out. While not letting the likes of theirs in.

And then considering the implications of this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=254

And this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=243

And some others that I just do not care to all look up again. Finally consider the links that i provided, and realise that the consequences they point out, often are self-explanatory.

None of these things will be much liked, neither by many Muslims (although I knew quite some who fled to Europe and demand even stronger measures from us to counter Islamazation!!!), nor by Western appeasers or the crowd in Paris that now rallies again and yesterday held the jesuischarlie-posters, as if that would rewrite the holy book itself.

We must seek the conflict (hope that sounds provoking enough to even wake the sleepers in the last row...) that unavoidably will arise when Islam in the West will be forced to finally hold up a mirror and look into its own face. Then all the illusions Muslims have about their precious Muslim-being and the ideological fundament for that, will either explode, then we need to be strong enough to swallow that blow, or it will collapse - then they finally have the room to build something new in Islam's former place. For example a replacement for it that finally has arrived in the 21st instead of still living by the rules of the 7th. Something that can be seen as a parallel to what happened to the fundamentalist Christian sphere when it got hit by the enlightenment, and then some more.

And here is what we must not want:
We must not want to continue maintaining the illusion of no cultural conflict and everything being peaceful and okay at the cost of accepting stepping back step by step by step by step.

If it is not desirable to avoid a conflict, or cannot be avoided anyway, then it is wise to make sure that yiou dictate the codnitoions by which it runs: the when, the where, and the how. This is our homes, our place, and Islam wants all the world, in the end. If we do not even defend ourselves, our values and freedom, our historically grown identities - iuf we do not even defend these in our own homes - then there will be no other place where we would do it.

I want of that. I have seen a good part of the Islamic world. It was anything but pleasant. Trading our ways for theirs - is an extremely bad deal, I would say. Looses everything. Gains nothing.

Many of you think all this is too extreme. But I must tell you, the handful of Muslim critics in Germany that I have referred to in various posts on the board over the years, in parts hold even stricter, more determined views on what must be done in order to challenge "political Islam" or however you want to call it - and I talk about academically trained people, people who were raised as Muslims/Muslimas, who knew it from their own biography, from their own struggles, who hold academical grades in their professions dealing with it. If you think that I am too extreme - then I must tell you that you are too soft, and that you still have not understood what a biting angry beast you are dealing with when asking what to do about Islam. It is a beast, and not a friendly pet sitting on your lap, purring. Do not try to stroke it, it has never worked and it will never work.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

If this "expert" who's statement was to be read in a Swedish news paper, we are at war with muslim.

Not every muslim and not by us the people from the west but by these jihadist.

These jihadist see their religion(Islam) at war against us the infidels

In their twisted mind every muslim is at war against us.

Here's my own add to her statement
Our own twisted people, see us, every one of us at war against muslims

Markus

Their "twisted minds" speak the thoughts of Muhammad's orders. Everything that they do has to do with Muhammad's kind little ideology. The question is not why they do what they do - they just follow Islam. The question is why many do not do like they do, not doing what Islam tells them to do. There is the active potential you should build on - not in thinking that "violent Muslims" are just insanes that have nothing to do with Islam. These "insanes" are all about Islam, an they are close to it. They are not more or less insane than any other religious fundamentalist. Islam has no fundamentalist sub-lineages that derail it - it is a fundamentalist religion/political system.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Since France is the issue. In 2013, Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius distanced the French government from the weekly’s in-your-face criticism of Islamism and Islam and warned Charlie Hebdo not to push provocation too far. I'm not saying leaders don't defend the right, but unlike with any other religion, numerous comments to be nice, respectful....but to what religion.

"All along, French policymakers have been divided between a desire to make a deal with terror groups in the hope of securing immunity and the necessity of fighting them with all it takes.
In the 1970s, France purchased immunity for its civilian aircraft by providing regular unofficial “financial contributions” to Palestinian groups involved in the business of hijacking.
In the 1980s, Paris bought an end to Tehran-sponsored terror attacks, which had claimed dozens of lives in Paris and other cities, by releasing over a million dollars in frozen Iranian assets.
In the 1990s, Algerian terror groups were bribed into offering immunity to France by a decision to ignore their fundraising and recruiting activities on French territory."

"Thus, France was the first Western power to impose a ban on arms exports to Israel, and the first to allow Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization to open an “embassy” in its capital.
In 1996, a French refusal to put several organizations including Hezbollah and Hamas on a terrorist list prevented the adoption of a G-7 agreement on 45 measures to combat global terrorism."

full....http://nypost.com/2015/01/07/terror-...f-appeasement/

France has done precious little to stem the growing tide of Jew-hatred and anti-Israelism that has gripped that country. The result, the Jews exodus, the Muslim build Islamic cultural communities...


"On Dec. 2, the French parliament voted overwhelmingly to demand that the French government immediately recognize the “State of Palestine.” Not after negotiations. Not with Israel’s agreement. Just do it right away, whether the Israelis like it or not. And the vote wasn’t even close—339 in favor, 151 against." Appease one, ignore the other....

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-fi...es-appeasement

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1896244.html

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/v...gory.asp?id=66

But what appeasement has France given to Muslims inside France? I believe that was the question at hand, wasn't it? The radicals within France, as opposed to those without. Frances viewpoint on the Israel/Palestine issue is one thing, Frances viewpoint on Islam within France is another.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

We must strop weaseling, and unconditionally demand and enforce compliance, and integration. Failing in any of these two, means being kicked out.

To Madagascar?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

But what appeasement has France given to Muslims inside France? I believe that was the question at hand, wasn't it? The radicals within France, as opposed to those without. Frances viewpoint on the Israel/Palestine issue is one thing, Frances viewpoint on Islam within France is another.

Ask the Jews who feel they must leave France in mass.

France appeases outside of France in every way, hoping in doing so, they don't have to appease within...it's the same. Now, that appeasement has come home to roost...The acts start from within, millions paid in ransoms, profit deals...I gave the list....It starts within....deal with it...Yes, it's bought you some peace as you sell out in fear.....we'll comply, just don't bother us....typical.

Not anymore....

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Ask the Jews who feel they must leave France in mass.

France appeases outside of France in every way, hoping in doing so, they don't have to appease within...it's the same. Now, that appeasement has come home to roost...The acts start from within, millions paid in ransoms, profit deals...I gave the list....It starts within....deal with it...Yes, it's bought you some peace as you sell out in fear.....we'll comply, just don't bother us....typical.

Not anymore....

So, what does Europe do then? What laws do we enforce? Do we round up all the Muslims, or just the radicals? What's a radical Muslim? Why stop at radical Muslims, why not all radicals?

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Their "twisted minds" speak the thoughts of Muhammad's orders. Everything that they do has to do with Muhammad's kind little ideology. The question is not why they do what they do - they just follow Islam. The question is why many do not do like they do, not doing what Islam tells them to do. There is the active potential you should build on - not in thinking that "violent Muslims" are just insanes that have nothing to do with Islam. These "insanes" are all about Islam, an they are close to it. They are not more or less insane than any other religious fundamentalist. Islam has no fundamentalist sub-lineages that derail it - it is a fundamentalist religion/political system.

Then you should know these "twisted Muslim" pick a word here and there, a letter here and there from their Quran, the same way our own radical believers do

Markus

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Then you should know these "twisted Muslim" pick a word here and there, a letter here and there from their Quran, the same way our own radical believers do

Markus

I wouldn't bother if I were you Markus. I really wouldn't.

[Tchocky]

What it boils down to is - anyone with a tangential religious association to hateful violent fascists has to self-criticise and completely alter their way of life, or face deportation to God knows where. We cannot tolerate anyone with even a linguistic association with those who would do us harm

Skybird doesn't have to change anything about his own hateful fascism because he doesn't threaten violence towards anyone. Neither do all but a tiny minority of Muslims but that's not the point. Oh, and he does threaten violence towards people. But it's OK because he hates other people too.

It's complicated.

And yet staggeringly simple.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

So, what does Europe do then? What laws do we enforce? Do we round up all the Muslims, or just the radicals? What's a radical Muslim? Why stop at radical Muslims, why not all radicals?

It can start by stop appeasing all the outside radicals, paying millions, business deals.....Even when you protect yourselves, you hurt countless people elsewhere... It's like if I bought drugs from my local dealer...I'm not hurting him, but I'm supporting a system elsewhere that is murdering 1000's...

We have a complex problem, there's no easy answer. It was great to see what happened in France today...Maybe now you will realize you can't appease for peace.

France continues to allow 100's if not 1000's join the fight in ISIS...Maybe deal with that...These are going to continue to come back home to you.

Islam must reform itself if we are to have any hope of of a moderate future, but we must treat moderates as we would any other religion...they should get no favor or appeasement. Here in America, our cultural religion, Christianity, is abused and insulted every way possible, you hear no one in the media saying....be gentler about it, the same with politicians, but it's common to hear them remarking about not offending Islam...

France and the world must join in the fight to take the fight to the radicals where ever they are, ME, Africa, etc.....We must stop supporting dictators and govts. like Saudi Arabia that support radicals behind the curtains.

There is much to do and no right answer, but we know the wrong ones...we can't bow or give a inch of freedom in law or word to any religion...

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Oberon

What's a radical Muslim?

According to all I have read in this thread and others all Muslims are radicals. If they are not radicals then by definition they are not Muslim. If they claim to be Muslims but are not radicals then they are either misinformed or they don't really know what they are.

Must be hard being a Muslim.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

What it boils down to is - anyone with a tangential religious association to hateful violent fascists has to self-criticise and completely alter their way of life, or face deportation to God knows where. We cannot tolerate anyone with even a linguistic association with those who would do us harm

Skybird doesn't have to change anything about his own hateful fascism because he doesn't threaten violence towards anyone. Neither do all but a tiny minority of Muslims but that's not the point. Oh, and he does threaten violence towards people. But it's OK because he hates other people too.

It's complicated.

And yet staggeringly simple.

Do no call Skybird that.

in my countries Denmark and Sweden, there are politician and other authorities who think that every Muslim is "not dangerous at all" and that it is us who's to blame when these poor Muslim has to "make a terror-attack"

Markus

[Tchocky]

I'll call him whatever his posts show him to be.


Those politicians you speak of are just as wrong as he is.

That said, I prefer their mistakes to his.

Peace