New Alan Turing Film

[vienna]

I just recently heard about this film. It stars Benedict Cumberbatch and Keira Knightley. Looks interesting:






<O>

[Jimbuna]

Getting a lot of news reviews in the UK news.

[vienna]

Good or bad news and reviews, Jim? BTW, Cumberbatch just last week won the Best Actor Aware at the "Hollywood Film Awards" the first awards ceremony of the so-called "awards season" here in Hollywood, culminating in the Oscar Awards...


<O>

[Eichhörnchen]

Benedict Cucumberpatch was always bound to get this part, but at the same time, I'm sure he was the best choice anyway.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by vienna

Good or bad news and reviews, Jim? BTW, Cumberbatch just last week won the Best Actor Aware at the "Hollywood Film Awards" the first awards ceremony of the so-called "awards season" here in Hollywood, culminating in the Oscar Awards...


<O>

Good atm, it starts with his brief engagement to Joan Clarke and goes onward showing how they worked together.

[Otto Harkaman]

Oh Keira Knightley is in it!

I do have Codebreaker downloaded that I need to watch. I've been listening to a great audiobook by David Kahn "Seizing the Enigma" that I need to finish, amazing stuff. I just watched the old British movie "Sink the Bismarck!" I do think Bletchley Park had a big part in finding the ship.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman

Oh Keira Knightley is in it!

I do have Codebreaker downloaded that I need to watch. I've been listening to a great audiobook by David Kahn "Seizing the Enigma" that I need to finish, amazing stuff. I just watched the old British movie "Sink the Bismarck!" I do think Bletchley Park had a big part in finding the ship.

Not sure what Bletchley's role would have been because Bismarck was sighted by a Catalina and shadowed by a further one until the Sheffield could take up a surface shadowing position.

A British Catalina aircraft of No. 209 Squadron, piloted by US Navy observer Ensign Leonard B. Smith, USNR (US Naval Reserve), spotted Bismarck at a range of about eight miles. While Ensign Smith flew the aircraft and evaded accurate German antiaircraft fire, his British copilot radioed a report of the enemy warship's location.

Upon acknowledging the contact report, cruiser Sheffield was detached from Force H and ordered to find and shadow the enemy. Later that day, naval observer Lieutenant James E. Johnson in a British Catalina from No. 240 Squadron, relieved Smith's plane and maintained contact with the German battleship until Sheffield took up a shadowing position.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq118-1.htm

[Otto Harkaman]

^ Its just a hunch I have at the moment. I'll have to gather evidence. However I believe that the Catalina was able to find the Bismarck because of Bletchley Park.

This I can't confirm, its from the Avalon Hill Bismarck rules I am reading "The Bismarck was able to shake off her pursuers and was racing undetected to France when an unfortunate radio message was issued by Lutjens to Germany, detailing the victory the previous morning. The British were able to locate the source of the signal and the chase was on again."

The thing about ULTRA was they always had to have some other way to confirm the information so that it wasn't suspected that they were reading the Enigma codes. Having a plane or some other way for the enemy to explain the information was important.

All just a hunch on my part at the moment till I find something definite.

[CCIP]

I'm pretty sure that was a case of just ordinary DF intercept rather than Bletchley Park. The radio transmission in question was, among other things, exceptionally long (some sources I read state that the transmission lasted a full 30 minutes).

The decoding of messages was far from instantaneous and I believe at that point in the war it took an average of 30 hours for a message to be decoded. Strategically, ULTRA was extremely important but operationally it was not of much use - a ship can be practically anywhere 30 hours later. On the other hand, DF intercepts were fairly reliable, provided the contact could be sighted and shadowed after the transmission.

[Catfish]

Interesting, and i will for sure watch it.
I think though that Turing's role will be overdone by Cumberbatch, as far as i read Alan T. was not very self assured, let alone boasting about his mathematical capabilities.

Also as far as i read, the 'bomb' and the other machine constructed, were not able to instantly decypher the messages. Still took one - two days. Important for the war effort, but not enough to divert a convoy instantly, after some boat breaking radio silence with the Tabu.

And a tête-à-tête with Mrs Clarke ? Hmm.

Looking forward to it anyyway

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by CCIP

I'm pretty sure that was a case of just ordinary DF intercept rather than Bletchley Park. The radio transmission in question was, among other things, exceptionally long (some sources I read state that the transmission lasted a full 30 minutes).

The decoding of messages was far from instantaneous and I believe at that point in the war it took an average of 30 hours for a message to be decoded. Strategically, ULTRA was extremely important but operationally it was not of much use - a ship can be practically anywhere 30 hours later. On the other hand, DF intercepts were fairly reliable, provided the contact could be sighted and shadowed after the transmission.

Exceptional detail/reasoning and how my memory remembers the events of the day

[CCIP]

Although there is an interesting note on Sink the Bismarck! on Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sink_th...rical_accuracy

Direction finding and traffic analysis showed that on 25 May, Bismarck stopped talking to Wilhelmshaven and started up with Paris, and Shepard committed to the belief that Bismark was headed for the French coast. The radio switch from Wilhelmshaven to Paris might have been a routine shift caused by Bismarck's crossing a meridian. Nonetheless, Shepard's hunch was soon proved correct when, by good luck, a Luftwaffe Enigma transmission was sent and intercepted and decoded at Bletchley Park, saying that Bismarck was headed for Brest to repair an oil leak.

So perhaps there's a bigger role Bletchley Park played than I gave credit for. The Luftwaffe intercepts were certainly decoded much more quickly than the Kriegsmarine ones. Still, it seems that the key decision in finding the Bismarck was taken on the grounds of DF rather than reading any of the messages, and the content of its own transmission to Paris was not known, at least certainly not until after the Luftwaffe message was read.

I think it's great that the story of Bletchley Park has now become much better known and movies are being made about it. At the same time, one should also not forget the Admiralty's very effective DF network, which was pretty much of equal importance and effectiveness in the Battle of the Atlantic as the crypto work at Bletchley Park.

[Otto Harkaman]

^ Thanks for the info, I find all this very interesting.

It was a conversation on BBG about Dieppe that reanimated my interest in codes, convoys and commandos. People there brought to my notice the interesting documentary called "Dieppe Uncovered" based on David O'Keefe's, "One Day in August: The Untold Story Behind Canada's Tragedy at Dieppe."





So now I've become really fascinated with the naval Enigma not to mention Ian Fleming and his "Red Indians" the British 30th Assault unit along with the electronic side of the war.

At the same time, one should also not forget the Admiralty's very effective DF network, which was pretty much of equal importance and effectiveness in the Battle of the Atlantic as the crypto work at Bletchley Park.

Sounds interesting!

[Otto Harkaman]

downloaded "Imitation Game" and going to watch it tonight with GF after dinner.

I've started getting into this book called "Very Special Intelligence" by Patrick Beesly. Its about the OIC ( Operational Intelligence Centre) in the NID ( Naval Intelligence Department). I believe I saw somewhere that this book was the first to mention B.P. Bletchley Park, Enigma and Ultra.

O.I.C. formed an integral part of the Intelligence Division. It was the recognized centre for the collection, coordination and evaluation of all information bearing on the movements and intentions of enemy maritime forces, whether this information originated with the cryptanalysts at B.P., with agents of the Secret Service, or with reports from warships or merchant ships at sea, or with the aircraft of the R.A.F. flying over it, or with the D/F stations listening to the enemy W/T transmissions.

I need to watch "Sink the Bismarck!" again but I think this is what is represented in the movie. I did read C.S. Forester's "Sink the Bismarck!" but I'll have to do so again after reading Beesly's book.


It (O.I.C.) was adequately, if not perfectly housed in an underground complex beneath the Admiralty with an efficient communication system. Beesly's book talks about the pneumatic vacuum tube system to send communications about the department which you can see being used in the movie. Actually you can see it at the back of the picture above, it is that nasty entangled bunch of pipes running ceiling to the desk behind actor Kenneth More and actress Dana Wynter.

I am several chapters away from their (O.I.C.) tracking the Bismarck in Beesly's book but I can't wait

[Rockstar]

Just an FYI

Tony Sales WWll Codes and Ciphers
http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk

Solving the Enigma: History of the Cryptanalytic Bombe by Jennifer Wilcox
Center for Cryptologic History National Security Agency
Revised 2006
https://www.nsa.gov/about/_files/cry...ing_enigma.pdf

Dayton Code Breakers
http://daytoncodebreakers.org