Need Help With DIY Electrical Stuff

frau kaleun · 11-09-14, 11:12 PM

Okay, I mentioned in my other thread from tonight that I might ask with help for a problem I'm having with a project, so here goes:

I've been needing to add an electrical outlet to my mudroom, cuz there ain't one and the power strip and extension cord just doesn't cut it. Fortunately there is an outlet on the other side of a shared wall, so after reading up on how to do it and making sure I felt I knew what I was doing, I decided to go ahead with it.

Then I got clever and decided that instead of adding a standard outlet and then plugging a power strip into it and mounting that on the wall, I'd get one of those power strips that you hardwire into the power feed instead.

So after getting all the stuff I needed I got the Romex wired in to the existing outlet and run through to supply the power strip, got the power strip base mounted to the wall, wire it all up, and... I get no juice to anything I plug into the outlets on the strip. My tester doohickey tells me they're hot, so the power feed is there, the connections are hot, but none of the outlets provide any actual power to anything I plug in.

The installation instructions for this thing are useless, basically they tell you how to mount the base for the wall and snap the power strip front onto it, but when it comes to the wiring they just say - in so many words - "wire this up according to the rules for how to wire stuff up" and that's it. Well, there's three wires in this thing that match what would go to a normal outlet - hot/black, neutral/white, and ground/green (unless they screwed around with the colors for some reason, and why would they do that?) - so that's how I connected them to the power feed. There was a green (I assume) grounding screw inside the thing so I pigtailed a ground wire to that, but with or without that doesn't matter, no power to the outlets.

Is there some special trick to wiring these things that I'm missing? Is there something I need to do to the wires where they go in and out of the individual outlets that I don't know about? I popped the removable back off them and the wires aren't stripped in there but I'm assuming that the sharp metal of the back of each plug thing that they're pushed down into cuts through the insulation and makes the individual connections. I made sure they are all pushed down as far as they will go and the things they are passing through are as tight around them as they will get, I don't know what else to do! Maybe this thing is just a piece of crap, or else there's something else to wiring these things about which I am completely clueless and I've googled for hours and found NOTHING that provides a hint about it. (The manufacturer's website is equally useless in this respect).

Any way I'm about ready to just put a standard outlet in there and buy the corded version and hook that up, I guess if a standard outlet doesn't work either I'll know it's something to do with the power feed but that's definitely hot and everything else on the same circuit is fine, so I'm stumped.

Armistead · 11-10-14, 12:54 AM

Not being able to see what you're doing or the strip you're wiring, it sounds like you're doing it right, cept obvious you're not getting a connection with the strip, so either it's bad {unlikely} or you're doing something simple wrong. Sounds like you're pushing the wire into the back plug hole, do you have an option of attaching to a side screw instead? OTT, try stripping the wires a tad more.

vanjast · 11-10-14, 02:03 AM

Some power strips come with a trip switch, a small little button in one of the corners. If yours has this push it down.
This also can be a funny one - does it have a power switch

Power Cable (or 'Cab Tie' as we call it)) insulation can be very tough and you might find that those knife-edge connections are not biting all the way to the wire - as Armistead says - strip the insulation off where the connection is made on each outlet, and reinsert the wire.

If that stuff is made in china I suggest you strip it completely and rewire the insides. I've seen some really cheap, bad stuff come from there (the East). The internal wiring might be all wrong.

If you have a voltmeter handy.
On AC voltage setting, you should get these voltages across the wires

Live (Black) - Neutral (White) = 120/220 Vac
Live (Black) - Earth (Green/Bare wire] = 120/220 Vac
Neutral (White) - Earth (Green/Bare wire] = 0 Vac

If you don't get these voltages... call an electrician, as this is a mains supply problem to your abode.

DISCONNECT THE DEVICE FROM THE MAINS POWER WHEN REPAIRING !!

I say this but you don't know how many times I've been Zapped

Jimbuna · 11-10-14, 07:52 AM

I don't like things that you can't see and only feel yet can do you serious harm or kill you even.

Engage with a qualified electrician.

frau kaleun · 11-10-14, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I don't like things that you can't see and only feel yet can do you serious harm or kill you even.

Engage with a qualified electrician.

But but but I have a book and everything! Two books even!

I did some work on the existing outlet already, since I wanted to get a larger junction box with the extra cable I was tying into it for the powerstrip, I went to the next size up and bought a double cover plate with a space for a little LED nightlight next to the outlets, that wired in fine and is working as is everything else on that circuit. Since I had no difficulties with that it seemed like just a matter of pigtailing in the new cable for the power supply to the outlet on the other side of the wall and hooking up the power strip in lieu of a standard outlet.

Here's a link to the installation instructions (with pictures) of the current model of the thing. It's basically the same as what I've got.

http://www.monosystems.com/member_fi...tallation1.pdf

There doesn't seem to be any kind of switch or button or anything that would turn it on or off. If there's something that needs to be done to the wiring where it physically passes through the guts of each plug, it doesn't say. I'm kinda with Armistead too in that if there's no power for the plugs maybe there's no direct contact with the wiring, I guess I could try nicking away the insulation there and see what happens.

Catfish · 11-10-14, 12:29 PM

Hi,
i am not used to US or UK electrical systems, but if you have three wire per circuit, one that you call 'hot' (+), – and earth there is not much you could do wrong.

In any case, cut, screw out or disconnect the circuit before you do anything with it. When the fuse is on, test the circuit with one of those small electrical screwdrivers, which have a small lamp inside to indicate current.

If the fuse did not blow after you wired it, you must have done something right

Anyway, are you sure the circuit you got the electricity from, is working itself ?

Then (please do not beat me) just to make sure, you DID remove the insulation around the wire, before connecting it either via snap-in, or screwing it tight ?

You could also post a picture ..

Greetings,
Catfish

frau kaleun · 11-10-14, 12:38 PM

The wiring to this powerstrip is pigtailed off an existing outlet, so I can confirm that the circuit it's on is fine. I have checked and there is power being fed into the strip, it's just that none of the outlets provide power to something plugged into them. So I'm thinking the problem is with the power getting from the wiring to the individual plugs themselves. I can't see how it could be anything else if everything is wired correctly. I may have to do as suggested above and hand-strip all the wiring where it contacts each plug. Tedious but still probably better than starting all over with a standard outlet at this point.

Gargamel · 11-10-14, 01:00 PM

Sounds like a multimeter to isolate the issue would be of use here.

vanjast · 11-10-14, 03:50 PM

Might be useful
http://www.diybasics.co.uk/WiringAPlug.html

Rockstar · 11-10-14, 04:55 PM

Got one of these to plug into the powerstrip?

Or, because the line you connected to the power strip is hot yet none of the power strip outlets work. I would secure the breaker get a glass of wine and rethink your need for the power strip.

Eichhörnchen · 11-10-14, 05:25 PM

You need my mate Jeff-Groves in here... if he doesn't fix it he'll demolish it.

Jeff! HEY JEFF!

Wolferz · 11-10-14, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanjast

Might be useful
http://www.diybasics.co.uk/WiringAPlug.html

A European plug doesn't cover this one.

Personally, I think Sam and Carrot have played a practical joke on the good Frau.

frau kaleun · 11-10-14, 08:47 PM

Well, I came home and rewired the powerstrip inside to make sure the wires were stripped and making contact with the metal prongs of the plugs. Hooked it all back up and still no joy. One thing's for sure now, though - I can't return it to the store and get my money back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Got one of these to plug into the powerstrip?

Yeah, I think I'm gonna pick one up because I'd really like to know what the problem is before I do anything else. If it's coming from the other end of the feed then I need to tear *that* outlet out and see what's what in there. I don't want to give up on the strip and put in a standard outlet with a corded strip only to find that doesn't work either.

Quote:

I would secure the breaker get a glass of wine and rethink your need for the power strip.

Problem is, there is no power into that room at all. And it's where I have all my stuff that needs to be charged, Dustbuster and whatnot. Plus the litter box is in there and it's an automatic deal so it also needs power. I had an extension cord running out of the room to the outlet on the other side of the wall, but that's not a long term solution. Either I hardwire a power strip and mount it in there, or I put in a standard outlet and then put a corded strip on the wall above it. Mama needs some power up in there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolferz

Personally, I think Sam and Carrot have played a practical joke on the good Frau.

Hahaha joke's on them because their litter box doesn't work with no power in there, so mommy has to scoop it out by hand... uh...

Darn you, you little furry pranksters, darn you both to heck!!!!

Wolferz · 11-11-14, 05:58 AM

Double check your connections in your newly installed junction box. One seperated wire under a wire nut is enough to kill the whole deal. Definitely pick up one of those plug in circuit testers. It will go far in diagnosing improper wiring and or ground faults.

Rockstar · 11-11-14, 09:33 AM

Been thinking. If I understand correctly you have AC power up to the outlet on the other side of the wall and it is that outlet you are using to tie in the power strip.

After securing the breaker. Pull that outlet, there should be a black (common) wire connected to the top gold screw, a white wire conncected to the top silver screw and a bare copper wire connected to a green screw. These wires supply power to the outlet a.k.a. 'line'

There are similar screws on the bottom end of that outlet. These are the ones your powerstrip should be tied into, black to the gold screw, white to the silver screw and bare copper to green. If that is the case and you still don't have power to the strip. It is possibe the common bond tab between the two gold screws on the outlet has been removed. Simply replace the outlet.

11-09-14, 11:12 PM	#1
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	Need Help With DIY Electrical Stuff Okay, I mentioned in my other thread from tonight that I might ask with help for a problem I'm having with a project, so here goes: I've been needing to add an electrical outlet to my mudroom, cuz there ain't one and the power strip and extension cord just doesn't cut it. Fortunately there is an outlet on the other side of a shared wall, so after reading up on how to do it and making sure I felt I knew what I was doing, I decided to go ahead with it. Then I got clever and decided that instead of adding a standard outlet and then plugging a power strip into it and mounting that on the wall, I'd get one of those power strips that you hardwire into the power feed instead. So after getting all the stuff I needed I got the Romex wired in to the existing outlet and run through to supply the power strip, got the power strip base mounted to the wall, wire it all up, and... I get no juice to anything I plug into the outlets on the strip. My tester doohickey tells me they're hot, so the power feed is there, the connections are hot, but none of the outlets provide any actual power to anything I plug in. The installation instructions for this thing are useless, basically they tell you how to mount the base for the wall and snap the power strip front onto it, but when it comes to the wiring they just say - in so many words - "wire this up according to the rules for how to wire stuff up" and that's it. Well, there's three wires in this thing that match what would go to a normal outlet - hot/black, neutral/white, and ground/green (unless they screwed around with the colors for some reason, and why would they do that?) - so that's how I connected them to the power feed. There was a green (I assume) grounding screw inside the thing so I pigtailed a ground wire to that, but with or without that doesn't matter, no power to the outlets. Is there some special trick to wiring these things that I'm missing? Is there something I need to do to the wires where they go in and out of the individual outlets that I don't know about? I popped the removable back off them and the wires aren't stripped in there but I'm assuming that the sharp metal of the back of each plug thing that they're pushed down into cuts through the insulation and makes the individual connections. I made sure they are all pushed down as far as they will go and the things they are passing through are as tight around them as they will get, I don't know what else to do! Maybe this thing is just a piece of crap, or else there's something else to wiring these things about which I am completely clueless and I've googled for hours and found NOTHING that provides a hint about it. (The manufacturer's website is equally useless in this respect). Any way I'm about ready to just put a standard outlet in there and buy the corded version and hook that up, I guess if a standard outlet doesn't work either I'll know it's something to do with the power feed but that's definitely hot and everything else on the same circuit is fine, so I'm stumped.

11-10-14, 12:54 AM	#2
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Not being able to see what you're doing or the strip you're wiring, it sounds like you're doing it right, cept obvious you're not getting a connection with the strip, so either it's bad {unlikely} or you're doing something simple wrong. Sounds like you're pushing the wire into the back plug hole, do you have an option of attaching to a side screw instead? OTT, try stripping the wires a tad more. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it. Last edited by Armistead; 11-10-14 at 01:34 AM.

11-10-14, 07:52 AM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,539 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I don't like things that you can't see and only feel yet can do you serious harm or kill you even. Engage with a qualified electrician. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-10-14, 01:00 PM	#8
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	Sounds like a multimeter to isolate the issue would be of use here. __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

11-10-14, 04:55 PM	#10
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Got one of these to plug into the powerstrip? Or, because the line you connected to the power strip is hot yet none of the power strip outlets work. I would secure the breaker get a glass of wine and rethink your need for the power strip. Last edited by Rockstar; 11-10-14 at 06:30 PM.

11-10-14, 02:03 AM	#3
vanjast Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Somewhere else now Posts: 1,736 Downloads: 825 Uploads: 4	Some power strips come with a trip switch, a small little button in one of the corners. If yours has this push it down. This also can be a funny one - does it have a power switch Power Cable (or 'Cab Tie' as we call it)) insulation can be very tough and you might find that those knife-edge connections are not biting all the way to the wire - as Armistead says - strip the insulation off where the connection is made on each outlet, and reinsert the wire. If that stuff is made in china I suggest you strip it completely and rewire the insides. I've seen some really cheap, bad stuff come from there (the East). The internal wiring might be all wrong. If you have a voltmeter handy. On AC voltage setting, you should get these voltages across the wires Live (Black) - Neutral (White) = 120/220 Vac Live (Black) - Earth (Green/Bare wire] = 120/220 Vac Neutral (White) - Earth (Green/Bare wire] = 0 Vac If you don't get these voltages... call an electrician, as this is a mains supply problem to your abode. DISCONNECT THE DEVICE FROM THE MAINS POWER WHEN REPAIRING !! I say this but you don't know how many times I've been Zapped

11-10-14, 12:29 PM	#6
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hi, i am not used to US or UK electrical systems, but if you have three wire per circuit, one that you call 'hot' (+), – and earth there is not much you could do wrong. In any case, cut, screw out or disconnect the circuit before you do anything with it. When the fuse is on, test the circuit with one of those small electrical screwdrivers, which have a small lamp inside to indicate current. If the fuse did not blow after you wired it, you must have done something right Anyway, are you sure the circuit you got the electricity from, is working itself ? Then (please do not beat me) just to make sure, you DID remove the insulation around the wire, before connecting it either via snap-in, or screwing it tight ? You could also post a picture .. Greetings, Catfish

11-10-14, 12:38 PM	#7
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	The wiring to this powerstrip is pigtailed off an existing outlet, so I can confirm that the circuit it's on is fine. I have checked and there is power being fed into the strip, it's just that none of the outlets provide power to something plugged into them. So I'm thinking the problem is with the power getting from the wiring to the individual plugs themselves. I can't see how it could be anything else if everything is wired correctly. I may have to do as suggested above and hand-strip all the wiring where it contacts each plug. Tedious but still probably better than starting all over with a standard outlet at this point.

11-10-14, 03:50 PM	#9
vanjast Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Somewhere else now Posts: 1,736 Downloads: 825 Uploads: 4	Might be useful http://www.diybasics.co.uk/WiringAPlug.html

11-10-14, 05:25 PM	#11
Eichhörnchen Starte das Auto Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: The Fens Posts: 17,392 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	You need my mate Jeff-Groves in here... if he doesn't fix it he'll demolish it. Jeff! HEY JEFF!

11-11-14, 05:58 AM	#14
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Double check your connections in your newly installed junction box. One seperated wire under a wire nut is enough to kill the whole deal. Definitely pick up one of those plug in circuit testers. It will go far in diagnosing improper wiring and or ground faults. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

11-11-14, 09:33 AM	#15
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Been thinking. If I understand correctly you have AC power up to the outlet on the other side of the wall and it is that outlet you are using to tie in the power strip. After securing the breaker. Pull that outlet, there should be a black (common) wire connected to the top gold screw, a white wire conncected to the top silver screw and a bare copper wire connected to a green screw. These wires supply power to the outlet a.k.a. 'line' There are similar screws on the bottom end of that outlet. These are the ones your powerstrip should be tied into, black to the gold screw, white to the silver screw and bare copper to green. If that is the case and you still don't have power to the strip. It is possibe the common bond tab between the two gold screws on the outlet has been removed. Simply replace the outlet. Last edited by Rockstar; 11-11-14 at 10:38 AM.