Ikalugin's (and JohnSilver's) submarine projects.

Onkel Neal · 11-09-14, 04:03 PM

Interesting. However, wanted to let you know, first couple of pics not showing for me.

ikalugin · 11-09-14, 04:16 PM

Thanks, though sadly there is no constructive criticism

also - fixed the pics.

Catfish · 11-09-14, 05:00 PM

Hello,
i find this pretty interesting, it looks as if you used original plans (?), and then modified them ?
I always found the shape of the russian subs pretty good, and streamlined, however i think the original Alpha project with smaller hulls was much more promising. Less surface = less resistance. Of course you need buoyancy for the payload, but... a light titanium hull with exchangeable hard- and software adapting to future tech and needs, would be a better investition - more smaller boats instead of a few big ones are cheaper, and less likely to detect.

Also, the early US subs were better streamlined, than are the new ones. You cannot make a long cylindrical hull and improve the flow along the hull, while making it more silent. The original Albacore or Scorpion hull was better, in that respect.

b.t.w. What is "WoT" ?

Greetings,
Catfish

P.S. First two graphics (photos?) still do not show up

ikalugin · 11-09-14, 05:54 PM

We have borrowed a number of solutions from existing subs.

Titanium hull is expensive to build, the idea behind our projects is to create a line up of "cheap" yet capable submarines both for domestic use and export. To this end we have sacrificed the buoyancy reserve, speed and dive depth.

WoT is World of Tanks. Images show to me, but they are very large.

p.s. about buoyancy reserves and displacement. The overall displacement was selected to accommodate the required depth (and thus hull structure), speed (and thus the powerplant mass/power output) and equipment (sonar, weapons ect) requirements. The buoyancy reserve is given for when the submarine is surfaced, when the submarine is submerged it is basically the part of displacement taken up by water. While it does help with upgrading the submarine (there is a room for growth) or when hit (you could do an emergency blow), it is still displacement wasted when going under water. Increasing the reserve to 30 percent level (ie to the level of Akula class) would create futher need to increase power output for the powerplant, which would lead to further displacement increase and so on (making the sub bigger).

ikalugin · 11-09-14, 06:19 PM

Some very early concepts for the AIP SSK we have at the moment:

The idea is to:
- have an integrated power-plant of some sort.
- adequate armament.
- large aperture bow/flank array, a spherical is replaced with a large conformal array in the bow.

Current options for the power-plant that are under consideration:
- integrated boiler+turbogenerator and main electric motor (with batteries). In this configuration boiler+turbine replace the normal reactor+turbogenerator set up found in SSNs. The other way to view this is an electric transmission.
- integrated boiler+turbine+reversable electriv motor (with batteries). Here the electric motor is used both for primary propulsion and for generating power.
- all turbine set up, which mimics the SSNs with the conventional boiler replacing the nuclear reactor.

Sailor Steve · 11-09-14, 09:58 PM

I don't have any criticism to offer, good or bad, as it's completely outside what I usually do. It is interesting though, and I'll be following it.

Onkel Neal · 11-10-14, 09:00 AM

It's a beautiful design, much like the Akulas and Alfas. I've always admired the way the Soviets blended their sails into the hull, US subs look pretty stodgy in comparison.

11-09-14, 05:54 PM	#4
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	We have borrowed a number of solutions from existing subs. Titanium hull is expensive to build, the idea behind our projects is to create a line up of "cheap" yet capable submarines both for domestic use and export. To this end we have sacrificed the buoyancy reserve, speed and dive depth. WoT is World of Tanks. Images show to me, but they are very large. p.s. about buoyancy reserves and displacement. The overall displacement was selected to accommodate the required depth (and thus hull structure), speed (and thus the powerplant mass/power output) and equipment (sonar, weapons ect) requirements. The buoyancy reserve is given for when the submarine is surfaced, when the submarine is submerged it is basically the part of displacement taken up by water. While it does help with upgrading the submarine (there is a room for growth) or when hit (you could do an emergency blow), it is still displacement wasted when going under water. Increasing the reserve to 30 percent level (ie to the level of Akula class) would create futher need to increase power output for the powerplant, which would lead to further displacement increase and so on (making the sub bigger). Last edited by ikalugin; 11-09-14 at 06:11 PM.

11-09-14, 09:58 PM	#6
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I don't have any criticism to offer, good or bad, as it's completely outside what I usually do. It is interesting though, and I'll be following it. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

11-10-14, 09:00 AM	#7
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	It's a beautiful design, much like the Akulas and Alfas. I've always admired the way the Soviets blended their sails into the hull, US subs look pretty stodgy in comparison. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

11-09-14, 04:03 PM	#1
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Interesting. However, wanted to let you know, first couple of pics not showing for me.

11-09-14, 04:16 PM	#2
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Thanks, though sadly there is no constructive criticism also - fixed the pics.

11-09-14, 05:00 PM	#3
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,788 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, i find this pretty interesting, it looks as if you used original plans (?), and then modified them ? I always found the shape of the russian subs pretty good, and streamlined, however i think the original Alpha project with smaller hulls was much more promising. Less surface = less resistance. Of course you need buoyancy for the payload, but... a light titanium hull with exchangeable hard- and software adapting to future tech and needs, would be a better investition - more smaller boats instead of a few big ones are cheaper, and less likely to detect. Also, the early US subs were better streamlined, than are the new ones. You cannot make a long cylindrical hull and improve the flow along the hull, while making it more silent. The original Albacore or Scorpion hull was better, in that respect. b.t.w. What is "WoT" ? Greetings, Catfish P.S. First two graphics (photos?) still do not show up

11-09-14, 06:19 PM	#5
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Some very early concepts for the AIP SSK we have at the moment: The idea is to: - have an integrated power-plant of some sort. - adequate armament. - large aperture bow/flank array, a spherical is replaced with a large conformal array in the bow. Current options for the power-plant that are under consideration: - integrated boiler+turbogenerator and main electric motor (with batteries). In this configuration boiler+turbine replace the normal reactor+turbogenerator set up found in SSNs. The other way to view this is an electric transmission. - integrated boiler+turbine+reversable electriv motor (with batteries). Here the electric motor is used both for primary propulsion and for generating power. - all turbine set up, which mimics the SSNs with the conventional boiler replacing the nuclear reactor.