They are coming home!

[Schroeder]

The problem I have with leaving that place is that it makes the sacrifices of all the soldiers there in vain. It will have been for nothing and that's what bugs me. It's like Iraq. The politicians will just call it "job done" and then everything our troops suffered for will go to hell in no time.
Not sure though whether staying longer would actually help to build up a proper nation.

[BrucePartington]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

The problem I have with leaving that place is that it makes the sacrifices of all the soldiers there in vain. It will have been for nothing and that's what bugs me. It's like Iraq. The politicians will just call it "job done" and then everything our troops suffered for will go to hell in no time.
Not sure though whether staying longer would actually help to build up a proper nation.

I believe General George S. Patton said something along the lines of "Politicians always stop us short, leaving us with another war to fight."
Not that I condone war, mind you.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

The problem I have with leaving that place is that it makes the sacrifices of all the soldiers there in vain. It will have been for nothing and that's what bugs me. It's like Iraq. The politicians will just call it "job done" and then everything our troops suffered for will go to hell in no time.
Not sure though whether staying longer would actually help to build up a proper nation.

Catch-22. Their departure is not going to do anything for local stability, but domestic, foreign and local opinion is strongly against the continuation of ground operations by western forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Damned if they do, Damned if they don't.

[ikalugin]

I hope that you would leave a stable regime behind -ehem Iraq-.

That said Russia does have an MRD in Tajikistan to keep it stable just in case.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

The problem I have with leaving that place is that it makes the sacrifices of all the soldiers there in vain. It will have been for nothing and that's what bugs me.

But would sacrificing more military make their sacrifices any less in vain?

We never had a clear measurable and obtainable objective in the AF conflict.

I hope the world learned what the British, the Soviets, and now the Americans have learned the hard way - stay out of AF.

[svt94]

I never said they were not true heroes. I totally agree. But, damn!... they ask us to fight for their crap and then.....what happens???
If we dont do it who else will??....

[vanjast]

I don't think anybody asked anyone to fight for them... it was more like the USA are now going to invade AF, as an extension of Iraq, and are our 'pals' the Brits, going to help us - which translates to, are you going to share the trouble we're going to make.

So one 'evil' force went after another.. currently the result is a draw, and with the pullout, you lose... again!!

So WHEN are the US and Brits going to have that light-bulb moment that your 'leaders' are dragging you through the desert sand, literally, and you all think it's for a good cause and patriotism. I'm afraid you have been hoodwinked again for a simple reason.

The Middle East (and most of the world) is a completely different culture to the West, they think and operate differently and this is not going to change... whether these guys live next to you, or across a continent or two. To think you're going to change their way.. to your way... nah nah!! no amount of bombing/killing, short of extermination, is going to change that.

So what are the real reasons for the invasion.. a question not really answered yet !

[Catfish]

^ That is the problem

Sometimes i think i'm an alien.

All this happens because the human race consists of egomaniac, bloodthirsty and generally uneducated individuals, never informing themselves properly; instead believing media (truthmakers), politicians (manipulative though incompetent egomaniac alpha animals), and prefer doing to thinking.

Those humans are especially dumb until they reach an age of, say, 40.
Then they either resignate wisely, or go on with the bulls.t, now in turn beginning to lead the younger ones by the nose.

Up to 30 years of age the human animals are very influencable, you can manipulate and drag them like you want, as long as you tell them it's for freedom. Or for those 42 virgins. Or for Mickey Mouse, if this is their god.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ That is the problem

Sometimes i think i'm an alien.

All this happens because the human race consists of egomaniac, bloodthirsty and generally uneducated individuals, never informing themselves properly; instead believing media (truthmakers), politicians (manipulative though incompetent egomaniac alpha animals), and prefer doing to thinking.

Those humans are especially dumb until they reach an age of, say, 40.
Then they either resignate wisely, or go on with the bulls.t, now in turn beginning to lead the younger ones by the nose.

Up to 30 years of age the human animals are very influencable, you can manipulate and drag them like you want, as long as you tell them it's for freedom. Or for those 42 virgins. Or for Mickey Mouse, if this is their god.

Humans stay influencable way beyound the age of 40.

[Catfish]

^ Well it was an essay.

We will of course always stick together against the evil Russians.
After they repeatedly (if unproven) violated swedish waters.
And so on.

Hey, the german anchorman of the ZDF (German 2nd channel TV) is a member of the Transatlantikbruecke, what do you expect from us influencable dumbwits.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

I also disagree with those couple of people calling these victims heros.
Losing your life in a pointless endeavour which serves no real purpose but is conducted purely on the whim of some halfwit politician is not heroic, its dumb.

A hero is a person who willingly risks his or her life in a cause they don't necessarily believe in. It falls under the auspice of a little something we call "duty".

And yes, it is difficult to understand.

[vanjast]

Originally Posted by Platapus

A hero is a person who willingly risks his or her life in a cause they don't necessarily believe in. It falls under the auspice of a little something we call "duty".

And yes, it is difficult to understand.

I had the same problem during my time... but found it easy to see through the political BS.

There was PW Botha waving his finger at us, 'Do Your Duty.. RSA Needs You.. Serve Your Country'

My thoughts were.. 'You're out of your cotton picking mind .. Crunchie.
What !! run around the bush.. shooting and been shot at.. for what! - a non-winnable unjust situation.. when I could be at the beach surfing and chatting up hot chicks - this 'finger man's' crazy!!'

But I had a slight problem.. I couldn't escape overseas like a lot did, as we had no contacts and no money to do that.. so I did the next best thing to get out the army - joined the airforce to study, which I did for 4 years.. qualified, then resigned.. honourably discharged straight into civvy life, with no more military commitments (perfect ).

Now we have similar situation as the US and UK, lying presidents, army sent to far away lands, CAR/Congo, to stop 'rebels'. But here the underlying cause is that our president's son is head of a few mining operations in CAR/Congo.. makes you think doesn't it. And the RSA gov were thinking of bringing in conscription for this little adventure...

This time I can send my children overseas and we have contacts.. and are in the process

You see .. think a little bit, ask the wrong questions, and see through the governmental BS that you've been fed.
One thing I can say.. so far our media looks to be 'free'er' than the UK, USA media with regard to 'invasion reporting'... so I think we more nitty gritty stuff... stuff that hurts the government..which is good, after all 'somebody else' voted for them.

[ikalugin]

I just wish that the job is done before NATO troops leave Afghanistan, as otherwise Russia would have to go in there and we honestly have better things to do now.

Though it isn't like NATO ever went to reduce local drug production or anything.

[Oberon]

Compare:

[Betonov]

Kabul 1970 and present day