SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Silent Hunter 3 - 4 - 5 > Silent Hunter III
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-01-14, 06:18 AM   #1
avers
Seasoned Skipper
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 672
Downloads: 586
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Tonner View Post

"Rescue no one and take no one with you. Have no care for the ship's boats. Weather conditions and the proximity of land are of no account. Care only for your own boat and strive to achieve the next success as soon as possible! We must be hard in this war. The enemy started the war in order to destroy us, therefore nothing else matters" "
I think this message was sent in 1942 when a u boat (I forgot which one) sank an American ship down by Africa and the ship was carrying German and Italian POWs. After the ship sank, the u boat started towing the life boats to safety. When morning came 2 B-24 liberators flew out and spotted the u boat with the Red Cross flying, the liberators got permission to attack and nearly sank the boat. I think after this incident, Donitz sent that message.
avers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-14, 07:58 AM   #2
BigWalleye
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: On the Eye-lond, mon!
Posts: 1,987
Downloads: 465
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avers View Post
I think this message was sent in 1942 when a u boat (I forgot which one) sank an American ship down by Africa and the ship was carrying German and Italian POWs. After the ship sank, the u boat started towing the life boats to safety. When morning came 2 B-24 liberators flew out and spotted the u boat with the Red Cross flying, the liberators got permission to attack and nearly sank the boat. I think after this incident, Donitz sent that message.
I have read accounts of incidents such as you describe, going back to the early days of the war. Early on, they were apparently not that uncommon. At his Nuremburg trial , Dönitz cited the frequency of such incidents as the reason behind the order Von Tonner quotes.

But an incident in 1942 could not have been the basis for the order. Blair in Chapter 2 (and endnotes) states that a copy of that order was found in U-13, which was captured by the British in May, 1940.
BigWalleye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-14, 08:52 AM   #3
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 190,726
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avers View Post
I think this message was sent in 1942 when a u boat (I forgot which one) sank an American ship down by Africa and the ship was carrying German and Italian POWs. After the ship sank, the u boat started towing the life boats to safety. When morning came 2 B-24 liberators flew out and spotted the u boat with the Red Cross flying, the liberators got permission to attack and nearly sank the boat. I think after this incident, Donitz sent that message.
Laconia incident

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!

Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-14, 05:26 PM   #4
BigWalleye
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: On the Eye-lond, mon!
Posts: 1,987
Downloads: 465
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbuna View Post
Hmmm. The Wikipedia article pretty clearly attributes the “Give no assistance” policy directly to the Laconia Incident. And it goes into some detail about how Doenitz embarassed the Allied prosecutors by pointing out that the policy was a response to bad behavior on the Allied side.

But Blair is also pretty clear in stating that the order, which he quotes verbatim from the Nuremburg record, came into Allied possession through the capture of U-13 in May 1940, two years before the Laconia Incident. Blair cites as Doenitz’s Nuremburg defense a claim that the order was a response to U-boat commanders’ excessive willingness to risk their boats to assist survivors.

I don’t see how these two sources can both be correct. Does anyone have additional information?
BigWalleye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-14, 06:04 PM   #5
avers
Seasoned Skipper
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 672
Downloads: 586
Uploads: 0
Default

In clay Blair's 1st u boat book, does it say what was the last restriction to be removed? If so please tell me what page or chapter.
avers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-14, 08:11 PM   #6
Sailor Steve
Eternal Patrol
 
Sailor Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: High in the mountains of Utah
Posts: 50,369
Downloads: 745
Uploads: 249


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWalleye View Post
I don’t see how these two sources can both be correct. Does anyone have additional information?
Further down the Wiki article also makes reference to War Order No. 154, from December 1939, and links to this article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Order_No._154

That was likely the one recovered from U-13, and the Laconia order was probably an extension and reiteration of Order 154.
__________________
“Never do anything you can't take back.”
—Rocky Russo
Sailor Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-14, 06:35 PM   #7
avers
Seasoned Skipper
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 672
Downloads: 586
Uploads: 0
Default

let me change my question. What was the last restriction removed? If you guys can please tell me when the final restriction was removed.

Last edited by avers; 10-02-14 at 06:59 PM.
avers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2025 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.