Side discussion about General Topics forum

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Betonov

I second this. (Until I see a black and white flag near Königratz)

I agree and disagree. The problem with this is that you're then punishing the whole forum readership for the actions of a minority. If two members cannot stop arguing in a circular fashion then they are the ones that need to have a time-out, and thus any normal discussion can continue in the thread.

[Betonov]

Good point.
But, it's the two parties in a circular argument that punish the community in the beginning. Like trying to have a say in an Italian parliament.
the thread is already dead by that point.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Good point.
But, it's the two parties in a circular argument that punish the community in the beginning. Like trying to have a say in an Italian parliament.
the thread is already dead by that point.

True, but take for example the Ukrainian thread, this has seen multiple circular based arguments in it, however it's still a relevant thread because the situation is on going and requires discussion. Likewise the 'Beheaded' thread which is the new de facto ISIL thread, that too has dissolved into the usual circular argument, but it's still an ongoing news story that will no doubt spark discussion in the future.

[Betonov]

Maybe Neal can implement an IP ban to thread system

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Maybe Neal can implement an IP ban to thread system

Well, I dunno about going that far, but certainly it would be better if the moderators stepped in when a circular argument had gone on for long enough and ask the two parties involved to take it to PM, and if they ignored him or her then infact them and if they ignored that then brig them.

[Armistead]

We are accepting new members in the bilge. We have our own way of dealing with people there....

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

He has proven himself to be what he is again. He is to be treated exactly how one would treat anyone who is an habitual liar, pay no heed to what they say.

But I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a simple question: Can you show it? If you can prove what you claim, do so. If not, then admit you have nothing to offer.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Well, I dunno about going that far, but certainly it would be better if the moderators stepped in when a circular argument had gone on for long enough and ask the two parties involved to take it to PM, and if they ignored him or her then infact them and if they ignored that then brig them.

I know some forums if two people get fired up they have a debate between the two players in a thread only they can post. Each is allowed an opening, a limited number of remarks/questions and responses and the thread is closed, then deleted after a week or placed in a sub forum.

I really hate to see forum policing get out of control, seems to kill out a forum and then people become wary of numerous topics. I understand the need to avoid racist terms, but are we to become politically correct as in numerous corporate forums?

Honestly, I have the option to ignore or not read many rants. Sometimes I've been accused of not reading a response post, well, if after the 2nd paragraph I see nothing, I generally tend not to read the next 10....

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Pardon?

You accused me of certain behavior. No one else has ever made that claim against me. I asked if you could prove it. If you can, please do so. If not, then stop claiming it.

As to the rest, all I've ever asked of you is to:

A) Stop making fun of people you disagree with, and

B) If you make a claim against anyone or their arguments, back it up. It's the claimant's job to prove what they say, with links and arguments. That's the accepted etiquette and everyone else follows it without too much trouble.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I know some forums if two people get fired up they have a debate between the two players in a thread only they can post. Each is allowed an opening, a limited number of remarks/questions and responses and the thread is closed, then deleted after a week or placed in a sub forum.

That's a possibility, but to be honest it's better taken to PMs, nine times out of ten the people involved won't even bother because they just want to publically involve the person they're arguing with, to try to make them look foolish rather than to actually discuss.

I really hate to see forum policing get out of control, seems to kill out a forum and then people become wary of numerous topics. I understand the need to avoid racist terms, but are we to become politically correct as in numerous corporate forums?

As I have already said, I'm not looking for political correctness, I'm looking for common decency and respect. Respect for people of all religions, sexual orientations and race. Is that really such a bad thing?

Honestly, I have the option to ignore or not read many rants. Sometimes I've been accused of not reading a response post, well, if after the 2nd paragraph I see nothing, I generally tend not to read the next 10....

I've started using the ignore function more and more now, I don't like to do it, but I feel that it's the only way to continue. However it's the lurkers and the newcomers that, as Tarjak put it in the thread that prompted this discussion "the point is not to change the view of the bigoted, but to prevent others from being infected by thier poisonous thinking".
Do we really want this kind of attitude on Subsim? Do we want hate speech? Do we want radicalisation of people to be promoted?
That's the question we need to ask ourselves, and not be sidetracked by the easy to apply label of 'Political correctness' when all that is required is respect and decency towards all people, regardless of their religion, gender, sexual orientation or race.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You accused me of certain behavior. No one else has ever made that claim against me. I asked if you could prove it. If you can, please do so. If not, then stop claiming it.

As to the rest, all I've ever asked of you is to:

A) Stop making fun of people you disagree with, and

B) If you make a claim against anyone or their arguments, back it up. It's the claimant's job to prove what they say, with links and arguments. That's the accepted etiquette and everyone else follows it without too much trouble.

This is getting silly now, both of you please stop or take it to PMs, this is the perfect example of what I think needs to be stopped on GT. You've both had your say, made your points and now you can carry on in private or not at all.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Oberon

True, but take for example the Ukrainian thread, this has seen multiple circular based arguments in it, however it's still a relevant thread because the situation is on going and requires discussion. Likewise the 'Beheaded' thread which is the new de facto ISIL thread, that too has dissolved into the usual circular argument, but it's still an ongoing news story that will no doubt spark discussion in the future.

The Ukrainian thread is doing fine as far I have seen, the circular arguments are short and the thread itselfs moves on I see no problem in that.

The Beheaded thread however spirals into the usual
Islam vs Christianity which is worse arguments going back and forth for pages and the thread gets stuck and imo lost it's purpose to serve to continue the discussion.

Originally Posted by Oberon

Well, I dunno about going that far, but certainly it would be better if the moderators stepped in when a circular argument had gone on for long enough and ask the two parties involved to take it to PM, and if they ignored him or her then infact them and if they ignored that then brig them.

Well then what about the following?

-Lock the thread for 48 hours to serve as a time out and give the moderators plenty of time to see who and what had the thread stray of it's path.
-Hand out ''warnings'' to the members having taken part in the circular arguments to no end.
-Re-open and the first one(s) to stray again to the same path gets an own time out in the brig for 24 hours.

[HunterICX]

Both of you, which part of the request made by me and Oberon didn't you understand?

Take it private, as Oberon already mentioned this is exactly the problem there is in the GT.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Well then what about the following?

-Lock the thread for 48 hours to serve as a time out and give the moderators plenty of time to see who and what had the thread stray of it's path.
-Hand out ''warnings'' to the members having taken part in the circular arguments to no end.
-Re-open and the first one(s) to stray again to the same path gets an own time out in the brig for 24 hours.

That sounds like a fair compromise.

[Sailor Steve]

Fair enough, and again I apologize. I've copied the last two posts into a new thread here. I want this to remain public because it's not a private argument but is based on an ongoing situation. I will transfer any further replies there.