The Scottish Independence thread - Yay or Nay?

MGR1 · 09-07-14, 02:21 PM

Good grief, that's a bit of thread resurrection!

I haven't been keeping an eye on SubSim lately.

Anyway, for those who think it's all about "Braveheart" style English hating, I found this article on the BBC news website, which should open yer eyes a bit

:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/20...699/index.html

This bit sums things up quite well:

I asked one, an old friend I hadn’t seen for at least 10 years, why he’d be voting yes. “I changed my mind quite a while ago. For me it’s about the way Britain has gone - the extremes of wealth and poverty that people down south seem comfortable with, the dominance of the privately educated people in all walks of life, the rise of UKIP, the talk of leaving the EU and a Labour Party that I don’t really recognise any more”.

He is not alone. Social attitudes surveys reveal that Scottish public opinion, on any given question, is not very different to opinion elsewhere in the UK. The Scots do not seem to be more left-wing, issue-by-issue, than anyone else - at least not by very much.

Why, then, do the Scots vote so differently? Why is it that the central Edinburgh constituency that I live in returns a Labour MP dependably at every general election? When I moved here in the 1970s and 80s, it was a Tory seat and Edinburgh was mostly a Tory city.

The yes-supporting journalist and writer George Kerevan has himself moved from the British left to the independence camp.

The need for independence as he sees it is “based on the need to put into practice traditional Scottish views on morality inherited from the Reformation and codified by the Scottish Enlightenment… This is a moral philosophy that definitely encourages private endeavour rather than state paternalism, but it also anchors private morality in a social context".

In other words, private endeavour and reward should be connected in some way to the greater public good.

For nationalist intellectuals who have, in the course of their lifetimes moved to the independence camp, what is happening in Scotland is, in part, a Presbyterian revolt against what they perceive as the growing inequality of British society - the apparent retreat from the ideals of social mobility, from the social justice agenda that characterised post-war Britain from the 40s to the 80s.

Blame Westminster - the institution and the way it runs things is the problem.

Devolution for all, and that includes England's Cities and Counties as well.

Mike.

donna52522 · 09-07-14, 02:23 PM

I say yay, those people suffered enough.

Oberon · 09-07-14, 03:38 PM

It's clear what we need now is a resurrection of the old borders.

But that would just result in Norway declaring war on us...

Catfish · 09-07-14, 03:44 PM

^ You could build a shore battery, in Lindisfarne

August · 09-07-14, 05:41 PM

Mercia? That pronounced 'murika?

ExFishermanBob · 09-07-14, 06:16 PM

Well, that map's a bit modern - where's Strath Clwyd? And Cumbria?

TarJak · 09-07-14, 08:03 PM

Those are way too modern again. Try a bit older:

Or older still if that one's a bit too Roman for you:

09-07-14, 02:21 PM	#1
MGR1 Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, United Kingdom Posts: 980 Downloads: 252 Uploads: 0	Good grief, that's a bit of thread resurrection! I haven't been keeping an eye on SubSim lately. Anyway, for those who think it's all about "Braveheart" style English hating, I found this article on the BBC news website, which should open yer eyes a bit : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/20...699/index.html This bit sums things up quite well: I asked one, an old friend I hadn’t seen for at least 10 years, why he’d be voting yes. “I changed my mind quite a while ago. For me it’s about the way Britain has gone - the extremes of wealth and poverty that people down south seem comfortable with, the dominance of the privately educated people in all walks of life, the rise of UKIP, the talk of leaving the EU and a Labour Party that I don’t really recognise any more”. He is not alone. Social attitudes surveys reveal that Scottish public opinion, on any given question, is not very different to opinion elsewhere in the UK. The Scots do not seem to be more left-wing, issue-by-issue, than anyone else - at least not by very much. Why, then, do the Scots vote so differently? Why is it that the central Edinburgh constituency that I live in returns a Labour MP dependably at every general election? When I moved here in the 1970s and 80s, it was a Tory seat and Edinburgh was mostly a Tory city. The yes-supporting journalist and writer George Kerevan has himself moved from the British left to the independence camp. The need for independence as he sees it is “based on the need to put into practice traditional Scottish views on morality inherited from the Reformation and codified by the Scottish Enlightenment… This is a moral philosophy that definitely encourages private endeavour rather than state paternalism, but it also anchors private morality in a social context". In other words, private endeavour and reward should be connected in some way to the greater public good. For nationalist intellectuals who have, in the course of their lifetimes moved to the independence camp, what is happening in Scotland is, in part, a Presbyterian revolt against what they perceive as the growing inequality of British society - the apparent retreat from the ideals of social mobility, from the social justice agenda that characterised post-war Britain from the 40s to the 80s. Blame Westminster - the institution and the way it runs things is the problem. Devolution for all, and that includes England's Cities and Counties as well. Mike. __________________ "I am the battleship Jean Bart. This name originates from a certain 'respected' privateer... Yes? You want to know what privateers are? Hmph, they are pirates that rob openly under the banner of their country." Jean Bart from the mobile game Azur Lane.

09-07-14, 02:23 PM	#2
donna52522 Lady Mariner Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 544 Downloads: 225 Uploads: 0	I say yay, those people suffered enough. __________________

09-07-14, 03:44 PM	#4
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,819 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ You could build a shore battery, in Lindisfarne Last edited by Catfish; 09-07-14 at 03:58 PM.

09-07-14, 05:41 PM	#5
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,248 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Mercia? That pronounced 'murika? __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

09-07-14, 03:38 PM	#3
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	It's clear what we need now is a resurrection of the old borders. But that would just result in Norway declaring war on us...

09-07-14, 06:16 PM	#6
ExFishermanBob Difficulties Numbing Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: AN19 Posts: 470 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Well, that map's a bit modern - where's Strath Clwyd? And Cumbria?

09-07-14, 08:03 PM	#7
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Those are way too modern again. Try a bit older: Or older still if that one's a bit too Roman for you: