Malaysian Airlines MH317

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by CCIP

One thing you want to keep in mind here is the economic angle as well. The Donbass region (Donetsk & surroundings) has always arguably been more closely linked to Russia economically than Western Ukraine. Russia has simply been the main customer of their (relatively developed) heavy industry. This certainly leads to other links. For many people living there, Russia is a "land of opportunity" as well - Russia's heavy industry, from the earliest beginnings of industrialization, has always tapped this region for its skilled labour. And to this day, many see better pay and more opportunities in Russia - and Russia tries to attract them because these Ukrainian workers are often far more skilled and ask for less pay than Russian ones. This is especially a bonus in a place like Russia, where a lot of the wealth comes from natural resources in places with pretty extreme conditions - not everyone is willing to go mining above the Arctic circle, but these Donbass miners and workers have historically proven much less picky. So, these are often people who are very welcome in Russia. There are many with family already in Russia, who moved or indeed lived throughout Russia all their life. Yet they're often not welcome in Western Ukraine, for cultural reasons, which is substantially more impoverished and has lower standards of living than the country's east anyway. And Kiev, like many capital cities, is a tough and competitive job market. So, where else to go? Refugees generally don't run to regions that they know are poorer and where they're always at a disadvantage against locals.

And then politically, I think many of these people have first-hand evidence that Ukraine is a failed state and Russia is not. Nationalist scares aside, they just have simple, objective reasons for having more confidence in the Russian state (and its ability to take care of them) than the Ukrainian one.

Not much of a conspiracy, just simple materialist logic.

All good points, thanks. It is frustrating trying to figure out what is really going on. There is so much propaganda on both sides to wade through and very few independent observers on the gound.