beginner question on how to increase the target confidence level

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by banryu79

...You can stream both of them, if you want, and then switch to the choosen one in the "navigation" screen before going to the broadband/narrowband TA screen.

Seriously!?! I can have both of them without reeling in the one that I am not using?

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Pisces

Seriously!?! I can have both of them without reeling in the one that I am not using?

Err... yes, sir.

I too had doubts about it and wondered if it was at all possible so I made the most simple thing to test it: tryed and streamed one TA, then the other one: it worked!
AFAIR I had this doubt because the manual section about the 688(i) platform says something along the line that you cannot stream both the TA... They obviousy meant to say you cannot stream both of them at the same time in the sense that the streaming mechanism can be attached to only one TA at time (I think, it make sense)... but you can surely have both the TA layed out. They choose a sligthly misleading way to explain it, I think.

[tirta]

I have tried using both of them in 688,
so yes, banryu79 is correct.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by banryu79

Err... yes, sir.

I too had doubts about it and wondered if it was at all possible so I made the most simple thing to test it: tryed and streamed one TA, then the other one: it worked!
AFAIR I had this doubt because the manual section about the 688(i) platform says something along the line that you cannot stream both the TA... They obviousy meant to say you cannot stream both of them at the same time in the sense that the streaming mechanism can be attached to only one TA at time (I think, it make sense)... but you can surely have both the TA layed out. They choose a sligthly misleading way to explain it, I think.

Quote from the manual errata:

Originally Posted by Dangerous Waters Manual Errata

Text in the description of the towed array is in error:

- Click PORT or STARBOARD to select that array to be streamed.
Only one towed array can be deployed at a time.

The bolded text should read:

- Click PORT or STARBOARD to select that array to be streamed.
Only one towed array need be deployed at a time.

I've never tried it myself as I don't really see the need

[Pisces]

Damn, only learned this after what? ... 9 years?

But I suspect in real life you would have a serious risk of them getting tangled up. So you will loose both in one go. Not good.

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Pisces

But I suspect in real life you would have a serious risk of them getting tangled up. So you will loose both in one go. Not good.

Mmm... right, that make sense, I never thought about this
It would be nice to know if in RL they never stream both arrays or how much it is risky...

I'm thinking of keeping both streamed for only 1/3 of their length so I could reel in one very quickly in case of need (i.e. until situational awareness is established and I choose a tactical behaviour that promote better sensibility VS higher speed).

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Pisces

Damn, only learned this after what? ... 9 years?

But I suspect in real life you would have a serious risk of them getting tangled up. So you will loose both in one go. Not good.

I recently red a useful tactic that involves the use of both TA.
You place yourself just above the thermal layer, and lay out one TA at 1/3 length to listen above the layer (of course you shoud travel at an appropriate speed) and the other TA to 1/2 to full length to listen below it.

[Pisces]

Yes, that makes sense to listen to both sides of the layer with a Towed Array.

In regards to streamed length, fully streamed length doesn't seem to help much in sensitivity it seems. At least in game. To reduce time it takes for the the baffles to swing after a turn it is usually sufficient to stream the TA only 1/3rd. Or 1/4th if it is also shallow.

Last week I dug up the manual errata of the game, and clearly read it on the first page:

[quoute]The 688(I)’s towed arrays can be deployed at the
same time; however, this is not recommended in shallow water. [/quote]Now, if they only clarified why not to use them both in shallow water.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by Pisces

Last week I dug up the manual errata of the game, and clearly read it on the first page:

Now, if they only clarified why not to use them both in shallow water.

I'm only speculating, but I'm imagining the reasoning could deal with the fact that in shallow water, the bottom is easily accessible and constantly at varying differences as you're steaming around. Another possible reason is that shallow water is probably much more turbulent and random compared to the open ocean that mostly has just a consistent current, in terms of the toweds getting tangled.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

I'm only speculating, but I'm imagining the reasoning could deal with the fact that in shallow water, the bottom is easily accessible and constantly at varying differences as you're steaming around. Another possible reason is that shallow water is probably much more turbulent and random compared to the open ocean that mostly has just a consistent current, in terms of the toweds getting tangled.

As a real-life advice
I would understand that. But if this entanglement realism isn't modelled (I doubt it is) then it shouldn't be mentioned, especially a manual errata.

[banryu79]

Could it possibly have to do with noise produced if the array touch the bottom? 2 array on the bottom ar noiser than just one

I mean, if the in-game effects of a TA on the bottom is not only the obvious washout of the array itself but also a slight production of noise (in the broadband spectrum I suppose) for the boat itself.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by banryu79

Could it possibly have to do with noise produced if the array touch the bottom? 2 array on the bottom ar noiser than just one

I mean, if the in-game effects of a TA on the bottom is not only the obvious washout of the array itself but also a slight production of noise (in the broadband spectrum I suppose) for the boat itself.

The errata specifically says you cannot use both at the same time. So the noise of the other does not, or cannot if it speaks the truth, add together to the one that is selected.

And realistically speaking, the own noise perceived by a dragging sensor would be much stronger than what is perceived from a nearby dragging sensor a couple of yards away. As the distance of where the sound comes from is much more nearer, and thus stronger. Sound levels (decibells) do not really add anyway, as they are really fractions or ratios.

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Pisces

And realistically speaking, the own noise perceived by a dragging sensor would be much stronger than what is perceived from a nearby dragging sensor a couple of yards away. As the distance of where the sound comes from is much more nearer, and thus stronger. Sound levels (decibells) do not really add anyway, as they are really fractions or ratios.

Yes, I concur, but I was speaking about an increment in Ownship Passive Source Level -- aka you produce more noise and that increases the risk to be counterdetected... Still your observation about the fact that two sound levels in decibel doesn't simpy add up still apply, so I suppose that one VS two TA running against the bottom do not make a significant difference.

[Pisces]

I suspect a dragging TA could be detected in real life depending on the speed and the distance or the receiver. But I have nothing to substantiate that claim, and no naval experience.

Also, the concern of a dragging TA is more important in terms of lack of sensors(and damage to it), than as a source of noise. You would never want this anyway. 1 or 2 TAs doesn't matter, as you'll be at a tactical disadvantage anyhow.