Bowe Bergdahl

[Platapus]

"The Obama administration has dismissed the criticism, saying there was concern for Bergdahl's declining health. And POW swaps are standard practice as wars wind down, Obama has said."

So now, when it is convenient, all of a sudden these prisoners are now POWs?

[Flamebatter90]

I'd be careful around this guy. He says something, 2 others say it didnt happen.

1. He is said to have left the base without authorization
2. He says that he and his patrol were ambushed, I think it was 14th of July
3. No patrols were scheduled for that day
4. Search launches
5. 6 US soldiers are killed direcle or indirectly due to the ops to find Berghdahl.

Let me play the devil's advogate and say: maybe he has switched sides? He hated the war, he didn't believe in the uniform.

We are talking about the Taliban, how many prisoners have they kept for 5 years? Usually it's a shot in the back of the head, or worse, throat cut.

[Oberon]

It's possible.

My personal take on it is this. He joined up trying to find a place for himself and didn't find it. He'd already bounced out of the USCG, but made it through Basic on the US Army. He was disillusioned by service in Afghanistan and, yeah, he probably did have some sympathies with the Afghanis, not the Taliban but those who have spent the last decade being bombed into oblivion. Finally he has had enough of being in the US military and decides to walk to Pakistan and onward perhaps to India.
Of course, dumb idea because that's through the most Taliban/Al'Qaeda infested region in the whole of Afghanistan and surprise surprise he gets captured by the Taliban, who rather than treat him fairly as a someone who sympathises with the plight of the Afghan people, they kick him into a cage and do all the fun Taliban things with him.

The guy is pretty broken, he was already damaged when he went to Afghanistan, now he's broken. He'll probably be in therapy for the next decade, between military service, imprisonment and trial (and execution) by media.

[Flamebatter90]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The guy is pretty broken, he was already damaged when he went to Afghanistan, now he's broken.

And that's what worries me. Reading his last emails to his parents, he didn't believe in the war nor the uniform anymore. He also lies how he got captured. Everyone in his base says he left, no patrol, he just left.

I am glad he is back home.... sort of. He's clean, it'd be a political suicide to charge him for desertion at this point. BUT, what about the 5 terrorists that went free? High-risk terrorists to be specific.

US has been known for not negotiating with terrorists for quite some time.
Now, one PRIVATE is exchanged for 5 leaders?
That might be noble, but it's damn stupid too.
EDIT: Honestly, I think Bergdahl just gets forgotten.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Flamebatter90

Now, one PRIVATE is exchanged for 5 leaders? That might be noble, but it's damn stupid too.

It makes a dandy advertising jingle. At Gitmo, you Git More.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Flamebatter90

And that's what worries me. Reading his last emails to his parents, he didn't believe in the war nor the uniform anymore. He also lies how he got captured. Everyone in his base says he left, no patrol, he just left.

I am glad he is back home.... sort of. He's clean, it'd be a political suicide to charge him for desertion at this point. BUT, what about the 5 terrorists that went free? High-risk terrorists to be specific.

US has been known for not negotiating with terrorists for quite some time.
Now, one PRIVATE is exchanged for 5 leaders?
That might be noble, but it's damn stupid too.
EDIT: Honestly, I think Bergdahl just gets forgotten.

Yeah, his lying is him trying to recover some dignity before he is torn apart by the US press, somewhat naive of him to think that it wouldn't be checked up on, but he strikes me as a naive guy.
In regards to the men who were let go, they will likely be lying low for quite a while, but at any time after that there's an AGM-114 with their name on it ready to drop from a drone.

In regards to the non-negotiation, I'd say that it was definitely an attempt by Obama to work on the 'we bring our boys home' image, the whole "We don't leave our guys behind" motto of the US military, and either he hoped the desertion subject wouldn't come up or get out, or gambled that the media would focus on the fact that an American had been brought back from the Taliban. Probably more the former than the latter, Obama should know how determined elements of the US media are to villify him, so he'd be stupid to think that they'd pass up that chance.

But yes, forgetting about Bergdahl is the best bet, let him go through his court martial, discharge and therapy in peace.

Originally Posted by Platapus

"The Obama administration has dismissed the criticism, saying there was concern for Bergdahl's declining health. And POW swaps are standard practice as wars wind down, Obama has said."

So now, when it is convenient, all of a sudden these prisoners are now POWs?

Not all of a sudden. A long time ago the supreme ruled that there must be coverage.
Its a basic thing that prisoners cannot have indeterminate status, the default in this is POW status.
The confusion arises from the former administrations attempt to skirt the legal issues and simply make up a status of its own on a whim.

[Wolferz]

A great many folks have lost sight of the meaning of the abbreviation... P.O.W. Prisoner Of War. I 've yet to see any official declaration of war against a sovereign enemy in the country of Afghanistan.
Bergdahl decided to go sight seeing and got kidnapped, not captured.

Yeah, I know. Semantics.

A great many folks have lost sight of the meaning of the abbreviation... P.O.W. Prisoner Of War. I 've yet to see any official declaration of war against a sovereign enemy in the country of Afghanistan.

That is because a declaration of war is not needed under US law to go to war.
There are three options available in the lets go to war act. The US used two of them. Though it is mainly the second of the three in regards to Afghanistan as far as the formal legislation of the war goes.
Though the earlier declaration on 18th Sept 2001 pretty much declares war on anyone and everyone anywhere the President shall choose.

So its a war which means prisoners from the war are prisoners of war unless they fit into one of the other recognised categories.
So its not that a great many people have lost sight, its just that some people choose not to see and then claim others have lost sight.

[Onkel Neal]

Not turning out too well for Obama

Everything The White House Told You About Bowe Bergdahl Was Wrong

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Vendor

I hope that the outcome will be good, and that this was a strength showing up in the U.S.


Note: 23 June 2013 Last updated at 15:12 GMT

Nope. Time to pay the piper.

[Oberon]

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

A great many folks have lost sight of the meaning of the abbreviation... P.O.W. Prisoner Of War. I 've yet to see any official declaration of war against a sovereign enemy in the country of Afghanistan.
Bergdahl decided to go sight seeing and got kidnapped, not captured.

Yeah, I know. Semantics.

A very important semantic. The legal state of war is like being pregnant. Either you are or you are not. There is not almost or kinda.

[Wolferz]

If Bowe thinks the Taliban were rough on him...

Wait until he gets to Leavenworth.

You can't fix stupid but you can sure make it suffer

[fred8615]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

If Bowe thinks the Taliban were rough on him...

Wait until he gets to Leavenworth.

You can't fix stupid but you can sure make it suffer

I predict he won't serve a day in prison if he's convicted. They'll say his five years "captivity" by the Taliban plus a prison term is too harsh. He'll get a dishonorable discharge, etc., but no jail.

And while I think this highly, highly unlikely, there is a little tiny voice in my head suggesting Obama pardons him. Just to make all this go away. He'll take heat for it, but he's already survived swapping five terrorists for this twerp. He can survive pardoning him too. But, as I said, I don't think he'll end up doing it.