Bowe Bergdahl

[Armistead]

The men that served with him are all clear and together that he deserted his post. Six men lost their lives searching for him. My fear is we'll never get the full truth because it's now so political. My issue is Obama ignored congress once again.

These 5 aren't your average fighters, two are wanted by the UN for possible war crimes and that route should've been taken to try them, instead of free them to do it again. All of them are top leaders and it won't be long these guys will be back in charge killing innocent people in Afghanistan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...asnt-time.html

[mapuc]

From an Danish article about the American standpoint on this issue

Have used Google translate

"exchange with the Taliban are dividing the U.S.
Americans are divided on the issue
whether President Barack Obama
did the right thing by swapping five
Members of the Taliban for the U.S.
happen POW Bowe Bergdahl

According to a poll conducted by
Reuters.

44 percent of those surveyed responded that the prisoner exchange should never have taken place, while 29 percent believe that Obama did the right thing. The remaining 27 percent are unsure.#

78 percent also said that the United States must
do everything they can to liberate
POWs as Bergdahl."

Markus

[Platapus]

It should also be remembered that when President Obama signed this law, he also issued what is called a "signing statement" where he informed congress that he felt the law was unconstitutional and was an infringement on the powers of the Executive Branch.

In effect, he was saying that "yes it is a law, but I am not bound by it due to separation of powers". Unfortunately, signing statements have become common (too common) in the past 40 years.

[Oberon]

So, essentially this is yet another 'whatever Obama does we're going to bash him for it' thread?

If he hadn't have got Bergdahl released it would be all "Obama get our man back" "Obama doesn't like our troops" "Get our man back, what is taking you so long" and since he's got him back it's "That man was a traitor" "Obama is negotiating with terrorists".

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

So, essentially this is yet another 'whatever Obama does we're going to bash him for it' thread?

If he hadn't released Bergdahl it would be all "Obama get our man back" "Obama doesn't like our troops" "Get our man back, what is taking you so long" and since he's got him back it's "That man was a traitor" "Obama is negotiating with terrorists".

This has been going on for years...Obama refused several times before. It may be he is a deserter, but as liberal Feinstein pointed out...he didn't follow the law in getting him out. In not doing so, he can forget getting Gitmo closed. My bigger issue is two are wanted by the UN for war crimes...and that should've happened, not traded where they will go back killing again.

We have plenty evidence that it's clear he willingly left his post.....

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Armistead

This has been going on for years...Obama refused several times before. It may be he is a deserter, but as liberal Feinstein pointed out...he didn't follow the law in getting him out. In not doing so, he can forget getting Gitmo closed. My bigger issue is two are wanted by the UN for war crimes...and that should've happened, not traded where they will go back killing again.

We have plenty evidence that it's clear he willingly left his post.....

So, if he left his post then he is no longer an American citizen, is that it?

Originally Posted by Catfish

Methinks this thread should have stopped after Oberon's post.
This was a good one

You would have thought so, but Armistead keeps digging his hole.

So lets see what he delivered, the Daily Fail...no that's too easy.

Ah the UN, that's the evil UN of course
So that's under the treaty that the US voted against.
Not a good start
So that's the treaty that the US and Sudan said no way hosea to
Definitely not a good start.
Speedy trial, no torture , full disclosure, full legal representation...ooops you can see why they couldn't hand over the Taliban for trial can't you.
Its definitely not starting well at all.

Ok forget all the obvious stuff, ignore all the screw ups which arise from the Gitmo mess and the clear problems of jurisdiction when a state says it is not a party to the party.
Lets pretend those complications don't exist and go straight to the preliminary report on war crimes and crimes against humanity in Afghanistan.
Damn there's a lot of mentions of the US led coalition in there. Funnily enough one of the US backed warlords one of the Taliban 5 is accused of crimes against is accused of the very same crimes himself
But what the hell lets go with the flow and hand over the Taliban leaders, and also hand over the US leaders, put Bush and Obama on the same flight to the Hague after all they were in command, add in all the US troops implicated plus the other coilition forces and then pack it out with all the coilitions Afghan allies who get a mention.
After all fairs fair and if you want to hand people over to the Hauge then you must hand over everyone or it isn't justice.

So then Armistead are you eager to hand over any of those Americans for trial?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

So, if he left his post then he is no longer an American citizen, is that it?

Wait and see, he will be found a deserter and traitor that an American president traded 5 of our worse enemy while we're still in war. I'll trust those that served with him and knew him over the spin going on now to get Obama out of another mess.

I wasn't aware Bush or Obama were wanted for war crimes by the UN...your facts please?

Yes, he is an American, but a traitor and should be quickly tried by the military, not the WH.....and then quickly executed for his crimes.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Armistead

The men that served with him are all clear and together that he deserted his post.

So because a handful of former Army soldiers say he was a deserter he was.

Yeah I do not trust any media outlet when they say they found a bunch of guys that served with him unless you show me their DD-214 and detailed service record that shows that they did in fact serve in the same exact unit (and it would have to very exact as in some platoon) it is nothing more than hearsay and even then it could still be hearsay.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

So because a handful of former Army soldiers say he was a deserter he was.

Yeah I do not trust any media outlet when they say they found a bunch of guys that served with him unless you show me their DD-214 and detailed service record that shows that they did in fact serve in the same exact unit (and it would have to very exact as in some platoon) it is nothing more than hearsay and even then it could still be hearsay.

6 were exact same platoon and all say he deserted. We have numerous other facts now that he had issues.

your facts please?

Wow...just wow

Are you not familiar with the 3rd and 4th?
More particularly the breaches which go beyond normal war crimes and become grave breaches

I suppose if you get confused you could ask the bloke that dealt with war criminals in places like Darfur Uganda Libya Congo CAR Mali Ivory Coast and Columbia. One would assume that he is a bit of an expert on stuff like war crimes as its his job.

Or are you one of those strange people who said the Geneva and Hague conventions don't apply and also said that torture isn't really torture.
Perhaps the shock of the US courts saying its commanders were not only breaking international laws of war but also breaking US military law was so shocking that you blanked it from your memory.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Wait and see, he will be found a deserter and traitor that an American president traded 5 of our worse enemy while we're still in war. I'll trust those that served with him and knew him over the spin going on now to get Obama out of another mess.

I wasn't aware Bush or Obama were wanted for war crimes by the UN...your facts please?

Yes, he is an American, but a traitor and should be quickly tried by the military, not the WH.....and then quickly executed for his crimes.

You're going to need a few machine guns if you're going to be shooting deserters, it's estimated that some 40,000 American troops deserted their posts during the Iraq war, and some 50,000 deserted during the Vietnam war.

Last time I checked Desertion stopped being punishable by death sometime after the First World War, heck, even during the First World War we only shot about 306, out of the 20,000 we convicted. Germany in the Second World War shot about 15,000, and the Soviets shot about 158,000...so I suppose there's good precedence there for you. Never mind that the US only executed one soldier for desertion in the whole Second World War, the Axis and Comintern obviously had the better solution. Never mind that the US hasn't executed a man for desertion in seventy years, and that he was the only man to be executed since the Civil war.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

You're going to need a few machine guns if you're going to be shooting deserters, it's estimated that some 40,000 American troops deserted their posts during the Iraq war, and some 50,000 deserted during the Vietnam war.

Last time I checked Desertion stopped being punishable by death sometime after the First World War, heck, even during the First World War we only shot about 306, out of the 20,000 we convicted. Germany in the Second World War shot about 15,000, and the Soviets shot about 158,000...so I suppose there's good precedence there for you. Never mind that the US only executed one soldier for desertion in the whole Second World War, the Axis and Comintern obviously had the better solution. Never mind that the US hasn't executed a man for desertion in seventy years, and that he was the only man to be executed since the Civil war.

Obviously shooting his was sarcasm, but I would....because men died for his desertion. I hope they at least stick his cowardly butt in prison for the rest of his life. I don't think it matters what political heat the Obama admin can bring, the army will have to investigate now..

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Armistead

the army will have to investigate now..

Bingo, and if he is charged with desertion he will face a custodial sentence, or dishonorable discharge. Sending death threats to his father and lynching him in the media and social networks is both unproductive and quite honestly an insult to the entire justice system.

It strikes me that this is basically just being used as another stick to beat Obama with, just as it would be if Bergdahl was still sitting in his Taliban prison, people would be beating Obama with the 'Why haven't you gotten him released' 'Bring our boy back home' stick, exactly as I have already demonstrated in this thread with the screenshot from someones twitter account. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, but that's exactly what being a US President is all about.

Obviously shooting his was sarcasm, but I would....because men died for his desertion.

Really?
I thought men died because some idiots tried to do Afghanistan on the cheap, then diverted resources off on an adventure of silly buggery elsewhere causing the six month window of opertunity to turn into a 13 year waste of time money and lives.
Are you willing to shoot those people too?
Or does your outrage at lost lives only come into play if Obama can somehow be blamed?