Working on a new submarine sim: Sub Commander - advice needed!

[Mixolyde]

Thanks for the welcoming, guys!

Another interface change suggestion. Hitting 'z' while in a room sends all off the crew in that room to rest, if there are in that room. If all of the crew assigned to that room are at rest, hit 'z' to bring them back to work.

[TheGeoff]

Originally Posted by Mixolyde

I found this game via a roguelike thread in the GamersWithJobs forums (which is an amazing place): http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/3...omment-2916772

First, I just have to say that it completely blew me away in terms of awesomeness, presentation, surprises, complexity, and fun. The detail is fantastic, and I'm looking forward to more updates.

Second, I was messing around with game options and encountered a few bugs. I'm not sure which option(s) caused this issue, but I changed
player_nation = USA
sub_reliability = 90
advanced_damage_model = 0
sub_radar_model = 2
And whenever I start a game like this, I cannot use the periscope at all. The game doesn't crash, but an officer will go to the periscope and nothing will happen. Also with these settings, the Misc Panel that should list damaged systems never lists anything, no matter what goes wrong.

Third, the game pegs my CPU usage, even when it's at the main menu, and even when alt-tabbed. Slowing it down or pausing when alt-tabbed would be nice. It kills my CPU even before I've started a game. This is on win XP.

Some general interface suggestions:
Where possible, please show current heading, speed, depth and desired heading speed and depth, and depth under keel on more screens. It may not be "realistic" to show all of this info on all of the nav/periscope/map/main screens, but I think it would make it more playable.
Similarly, being able to use -/+ to change depth from other screens would be handy, too. Alternatively, change -/+ keys for depth to some other keys, or change the -/+ keys for menu up/down to some other keys so that you can change your depth from anywhere, even in a menu.
When a seaman is getting equipment, hitting backspace should take you back to the "view crew member" menu, so that you can immediately assign them to work, instead of having to hit 'v' again.
If you hit 'z' a second time on a crew man, they should go back to their post, instead of to the bunks and then back to post.
Pressing Enter over the equipment storage should give you a list of current equipment in storage, and maybe show the equipment that has been taken and who has it.


Now general suggestions/enhancements:
Be able to store preferred depths or speeds and recall them
Have crew automatically move to another tile of fire or repairs when they finish a tile
Have crew automatically return to positions after all fires or repairs are completed in their current room.
Pop up a message warning when you assign a crew to go inside a room with high rad count and they don't have a rad suit on, or low O2 and they don't have SCBA.
Another blinking color for crew that indicates that they are not feeling normal (e.g. - dizzy, fever, etc). So you don't have to keep cycling through your crew to know if something is wrong.
Of course, a pause button that still allows you to view the game would be great. But that could be an option you set before you start a game.

That laundry list should keep you busy for a while. ;-)

Questions:
Is there a maximum that reliability can be set to?
Do rad suits prevent breathing in irradiated air?
How long after you scram a reactor does it stop producing radiation?

Super huge thank you for making such an amazing and interesting sim!

Glad you're enjoying it! Looks like you've put a lot of thought into possible improvements - I appreciate the suggestions.

Firstly, thanks for pointing out the periscope bug. Turns out there's a bunch of problems when using the old damage models ("advanced_damage_model = 0"), meaning the periscope and misc systems panels will not work properly. I'll fix this in the next version, but from now on I recommend always using the advanced damage models anyway.

Not sure about the CPU usage. While the game is playing I imagine it would use a lot (lots of calculations in the simulation for reactors, radar, sonar etc, as well as managing the AI for more than a thousand ships and aircraft) but while paused it shouldn't use much at all. I'll see what I can do to reduce it further.

I like the interface suggestions about the equipment storage and will probably add them to the game very soon. And the 'pressing z twice' thing is something I've been meaning to fix for ages. I'm hesitant to add depth controls to every screen though - I'll think about it, and maybe add an option for it.

Your general suggestions are excellent too. I've just made it so crew blink yellow if they are not feeling well (tired/irradiated/low on oxygen etc) and it seems to work well. I'll look into implementing the others in the next update.

Again, thanks for the feedback, glad you're enjoying the game and welcome to Subsim!

A quick question about the SubDeveloper. I created a sub and took it for a test sail. I dived to 20M and my luxuriously spacious torpedo room filled with water! How do you seal the tubes against the incoming deluge?

edit: never mind, I realised I was missing the pressure hull, so I basically had four gaping holes to let the sea in through!

Also:

Damn me this has suddenly got harder! I remember when you could steam around at periscope depth and very few ships would look twice at you. Now I've just been depth charged into oblivion by a small Egyptian Frigate that I couldn't shake in 30M of water.

Yeah, you still need pressure hull under the tubes! I'm sure the crew appreciated the fresh air though

And the next version includes an even more dangerous opponent than the frigates and destroyers - enemy attack submarines! You will also get a much better sonar system to deal with them though...

hi i'm new here and i need to say i fell in love in this game the dev did a really good job (it's also the reason why i register to this site)i downloaded it around 9AM and played it for 19 hours already your game is really great i feel addicted to it thanks for such a beautiful game

Welcome to Subsim! Thanks for the comments, glad you like it

Five subs in and all five have caught fire doing somewhere between 5 and 7 knots, about five minutes from base. If this was accurate The Hunt For Red Oktober would have been a much shorter movie.

Not aided by the fact that the crew can't be bothered to do anything about the fires. "The crew report an explosion." Yeah... that's what happens when you ignore a fire in the generator room forever.

I even turned the sub_reliability up in the .ini, in the hopes of getting out of dock without exploding. On that mission the Maneuver Control Panel broke and then the fire suppression system malfunctioned and then the sub caught fire.

I feel like the Monty Python guy who built his castle in a swamp.

Since a lot of people are commenting on how accident prone the subs are, I will explain a bit more about what sub_reliability actually does.
Basically, the mean time between failures is 10 + 2*sub_reliability seconds. So if you use the default value of 100, there will be an accident on average once ever 210 seconds. If you set it to 0, there will be an accident on average once every 10 seconds. If you set it to a value less than -4, there will never be random accidents on the sub.

[Tango589]

Originally Posted by TheGeoff

The next version includes an even more dangerous opponent than the frigates and destroyers - enemy attack submarines! You will also get a much better sonar system to deal with them though...

This is going to make nosing round an enemy harbour even trickier. Bring it on!!!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Alex1993

hi i'm new here and i need to say i fell in love in this game the dev did a really good job (it's also the reason why i register to this site)i downloaded it around 9AM and played it for 19 hours already your game is really great i feel addicted to it thanks for such a beautiful game

Welcome Aboard

[Mixolyde]

Originally Posted by TheGeoff

Glad you're enjoying it! Looks like you've put a lot of thought into possible improvements - I appreciate the suggestions.

Firstly, thanks for pointing out the periscope bug. Turns out there's a bunch of problems when using the old damage models ("advanced_damage_model = 0"), meaning the periscope and misc systems panels will not work properly. I'll fix this in the next version, but from now on I recommend always using the advanced damage models anyway.

Not sure about the CPU usage. While the game is playing I imagine it would use a lot (lots of calculations in the simulation for reactors, radar, sonar etc, as well as managing the AI for more than a thousand ships and aircraft) but while paused it shouldn't use much at all. I'll see what I can do to reduce it further.

I like the interface suggestions about the equipment storage and will probably add them to the game very soon. And the 'pressing z twice' thing is something I've been meaning to fix for ages. I'm hesitant to add depth controls to every screen though - I'll think about it, and maybe add an option for it.

Your general suggestions are excellent too. I've just made it so crew blink yellow if they are not feeling well (tired/irradiated/low on oxygen etc) and it seems to work well. I'll look into implementing the others in the next update.

Again, thanks for the feedback, glad you're enjoying the game and welcome to Subsim!

Since a lot of people are commenting on how accident prone the subs are, I will explain a bit more about what sub_reliability actually does.
Basically, the mean time between failures is 10 + 2*sub_reliability seconds. So if you use the default value of 100, there will be an accident on average once ever 210 seconds. If you set it to 0, there will be an accident on average once every 10 seconds. If you set it to a value less than -4, there will never be random accidents on the sub.

I love it, and am telling all my roguelike/FTL fan friends about it.

You might consider not supporting the simple damage model until you get more of the game finished, and then bringing it back. I'm an app developer, so I understand the pain of supporting multiple modes.

I understand not wanting to add depth controls to every screen. But having "depth under keel" on the weapon/map/periscope screen makes, sense, I think.

Blinking yellow sounds great, I would make it a slightly slower blink than the red one, so that it's less emergency looking, and more of a warning.

For the reliability, I have a suggestion that would ease the learning curve slightly, and that is to start the game with a "grace period" of maybe two minutes or so, where no random damage can occur. This gives a new person time to look around the sub and figure out the controls before all hell breaks loose. And it gives an experienced player a little bit of time to have crew pickup equipment, set O2 level, set reactor controls, etc. After the grace period you start the "mean time to failure" clock ticking like normal.

Another general suggestion. It's a little frustrating to get mission coordinates by radio, that I then have to go to my browser to look up where they are in the real world, and then plot a course. I'd suggest either a way to scroll the world map, and/or add lat and long markers to the map. I suppose you could have even more zoom levels, but then it's harder to plot a course to the green X, once you find it.

I tried using the mouse input, and it does make some things easier, but it also makes it a little clunkier. I'm sure you're aware of that and are thinking about it!

In general, it seems like the officers are not too good at assigning crew with the proper skills and equipment for jobs like fires and damage. As in, "why did you ignore the Experience Firefighter with an extinguisher and gloves, and put in this Strong guy with nothing?" Is this a bug or a "feature" of bad leadership?

Also, to whom can I paypal a small donation?

[Mixolyde]

I will feel less guilty about all these requests if I can give you a small donation.

If I already have a guy repairing something, can he be the one to give me the damage report? I hate having an already suited up technician in the reactor chamber working on the reactor, and then hitting 'd' and my generator room ensign comes running in to the reactor room sucking up sieverts like it's no big.

[Tango589]

I was thinking at lunch, whilst I was being d/c'd to oblivion again, who forgot to pack the decoys for this holiday? I know you always forget something behind when you leave, but I would have thought decoys are up there with sunscreen, passports and travellers checks in importance. Maybe in a later edition...

Also, would it be possible to implement a 'do you wish to exit yes/no' box before you can quit, to save myself and maybe some others from accidentally quitting when I just wanted to pause?

[Leo_93]

I can't wait for the enemy attack subs and improved sonar that will definitely make things more interesting. Also I notice a relatively small bug the occurs when you refit the submarine while having empty torpedo tubes, torpedoes will appear in the empty tubes but they are not considered loaded, however if you order the offending tubes to be loaded crew men will run to the tubes and "load them" after a sec or two and then they are considered loaded. Anyway that's the only bug I noticed so far while playing, while its far from a big deal i just figured I would mention it. Anyway keep up the good work on my favorite up and coming sub sim.

[TheGeoff]

Good suggestions again Mixolyde, expect to see many of them in the next version And yeah, I think I will disable the simplified damage model for now - or at least make comment in the options file that it is not recommended.

Decoys are an awesome idea too Tango. I don't know much about the use of decoys in sub warfare so I'll need to do some research, but it could definitely add some depth to the battles in the game. At the moment it's way too hard to escape from a surface ship and often the only real option is to sink it. Maybe decoys will help avoid that situation.

By the sounds of things, an exit confirmation is badly needed. Plenty of people have asked for that so I'll definitely be adding that too.

And thanks for the bug report Sub Ace, I've found the problem and fixed it for the next version.

Also, to whom can I paypal a small donation?

I've had a lot of people asking this from several different forums recently. I'm amazed and honoured that people think this is a project worth donating to!

I want to make it clear that Submarine Commander will always be completely free, and that I do not in any way expect donations. Creating this sim has been purely a hobby for me and all through the development I never expected to make a cent from it. I don't want people to feel like they owe me anything for the game.

But if you really do enjoy the game and want to make a donation to the project, you can send a donation via paypal to subcommandergame@gmail.com

[Tango589]

I've just depth tested my sub and started taking damage at 350M. I had flooding in the engine room and command centre. I set max throttle and blew ballast, but only rose slowly to a peak of 250M before sinking again. Does the sub speed make the sub surface faster? Also, is the crush depth the same each time or is it randomised?

#1 edit: Another question, what is the max depth to evade depth charges?

#2 edit: And another question: will there ever be missions to attack enemy convoys, because that would really sort the men from the boys!

#3 edit (I really should think more before making a post ): Are there future plans for a career, awarding medals and promotions to sailors, retiring old sailors and bringing in new recruits to train?

That should be everything for now...

Cheers for an excellent game that seems to be getting more popular every day!

[Leo_93]

Originally Posted by TheGeoff

And thanks for the bug report Sub Ace, I've found the problem and fixed it for the next version.

No problem glad to help out in anyway I can. Also when you add AI subs do you plan on modeling propeller cavitation and have it occur at different RPM's at different depths like in Dangerous Waters. Another cool thing to consider adding is a mission objective to deploy SpecOps teams to different areas across the globe via ASDS or other means.

[Mixolyde]

Originally Posted by Sub Ace

No problem glad to help out in anyway I can. Also when you add AI subs do you plan on modeling propeller cavitation and have it occur at different RPM's at different depths like in Dangerous Waters. Another cool thing to consider adding is a mission objective to deploy SpecOps teams to different areas across the globe via ASDS or other means.

Or putting a tap on an undersea cable as in Ivy Bells

[TheGeoff]

Originally Posted by Tango589

I've just depth tested my sub and started taking damage at 350M. I had flooding in the engine room and command centre. I set max throttle and blew ballast, but only rose slowly to a peak of 250M before sinking again. Does the sub speed make the sub surface faster? Also, is the crush depth the same each time or is it randomised?

#1 edit: Another question, what is the max depth to evade depth charges?

#2 edit: And another question: will there ever be missions to attack enemy convoys, because that would really sort the men from the boys!

#3 edit (I really should think more before making a post ): Are there future plans for a career, awarding medals and promotions to sailors, retiring old sailors and bringing in new recruits to train?

That should be everything for now...

Cheers for an excellent game that seems to be getting more popular every day!

At the moment speed does not affect depth control, so the dive planes don't actually have an effect right now. Speed should affect it, I just haven't got around to coding that bit of the physics yet.

As for crush depth: each tile of the hull has a slightly different (and randomized) ability to withstand pressure, to account for differences in welding quality, materials etc. So there's no exact figure for crush depth but it almost always works out to be 280-350m.

Diving below the thermal layer will almost always cause hostile ships to lose track of you and stop dropping depth charges. The thermal layer is affected by a whole bunch of factors but it is usually present everywhere except for shallow water in the tropics.

Convoys would definitely be good, I'm planning on having both civilian convoys and military taskforces. The taskforces will include aircraft carriers, submarines etc and will definitely be a challenge!

And unfortunately sailors on these accident-prone subs never seem live long enough to be promoted or retire, but I might add something like that down the track anyway, just in case!

Also when you add AI subs do you plan on modeling propeller cavitation and have it occur at different RPM's at different depths like in Dangerous Waters. Another cool thing to consider adding is a mission objective to deploy SpecOps teams to different areas across the globe via ASDS or other means.

Propeller cavitation is currently modelled in reasonable detail for your ship and broadly factors into the 'faster=more noise' calculations for AI ships. And thanks for the cool mission idea, I hadn't thought of that but it would be a good way to add some variety!

[Navo]

Hey Geoff, thanks for the great game.

I saw you asking for suggestion for new nations to add on Facepunch. How about the Netherlands? I could provide names for the ships if you want.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Navo

Hey Geoff, thanks for the great game.

I saw you asking for suggestion for new nations to add on Facepunch. How about the Netherlands? I could provide names for the ships if you want.

Welcome Aboard