Malaysia airlines B777 missing

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by guntherprien

Pray tell what you know of modern listening techniques.

One could easily ask you the same question. You seem to claim knowledge of said techniques, but you have not yet demonstrated said knowledge. What do you know of these things?

And before you ask, I don't know anything, and I haven't claimed to know anything, but you have, and have insulted other people by challenging their opinions. So, what are your credentials?

What I posted initially was nothing conspiratorial,it was straight from the horses mouth,not some 40 year old,ancient knowledge......Just saying

So you say, but the problem is we only have your word for that. You have not shown any knowledge of the subject at all so far. Can you back up your claim of the government knowing exactly where the jet is but covering it up? If you can, then show it. If you can't, then your argument is no better than anyone else's.

Try researching instead of attacking a friendly poster.

Does this mean that you have done the research? Can you show it? If so, please do.

It's people like you that stop folk posting on here for fear of ridicule.

I would say it's people who make claims then don't back them up who invite ridicule upon themselves.

I will debate you on any subject you care to mention,as long as you try to be adult about it,quid pro quo ?

So you say, but you have hardly been adult about it so far. You make a claim. Someone asks you to prove it. You counter by asking if he believes everything the government tells him. He counters that by saying no, but he also says he doesn't believe everything he reads on the internet. You counter by claiming to have inside knowledge. The problem is that so far you have shown no evidence of what you claim, and accuse the person who challenges your claim of not doing his research and then of being childish.

So, can you show any evidence for this claim or not?

If not, I'm ready to argue that my cousin works in the satellite tracking industry and says the plane was zapped by aliens. Any takers?

Oh, by the way, I'm only mildly interested in where the plane went, and how, and why. What I'm interested in here is honest debate.

[guntherprien]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

One could easily ask you the same question. You seem to claim knowledge of said techniques, but you have not yet demonstrated said knowledge. What do you know of these things?

And before you ask, I don't know anything, and I haven't claimed to know anything, but you have, and have insulted other people by challenging their opinions. So, what are your credentials?


So you say, but the problem is we only have your word for that. You have not shown any knowledge of the subject at all so far. Can you back up your claim of the government knowing exactly where the jet is but covering it up? If you can, then show it. If you can't, then your argument is no better than anyone else's.


Does this mean that you have done the research? Can you show it? If so, please do.


I would say it's people who make claims then don't back them up who invite ridicule upon themselves.


So you say, but you have hardly been adult about it so far. You make a claim. Someone asks you to prove it. You counter by asking if he believes everything the government tells him. He counters that by saying no, but he also says he doesn't believe everything he reads on the internet. You counter by claiming to have inside knowledge. The problem is that so far you have shown no evidence of what you claim, and accuse the person who challenges your claim of not doing his research and then of being childish.

So, can you show any evidence for this claim or not?

If not, I'm ready to argue that my cousin works in the satellite tracking industry and says the plane was zapped by aliens. Any takers?

Oh, by the way, I'm only mildly interested in where the plane went, and how, and why. What I'm interested in here is honest debate.

I don't recall inviting you into this conversation.
Don't be so rude.
Have some manners instead of jumping into a full frontal attack,I know you're only trying to bolster your pal's response,but a little decorum goes a long way.
All I'm asking is for people to think outside of the box,instead of believing everything they hear.
A disappearance of this magnitude is unprecedented,my source says there is more to it than meets the eye (which is obvious).
It's absurd of you to ask me to back up 'my claim' that the govt. knows where it is,I was saying that there is no chance that if the plane crashed into the ocean that modern subs wouldn't have picked up the black box pings within 30 days.
Like I said,a little broader vision brings with it,it's own conclusions.
Best wishes and no offense taken/meant.

[NeonSamurai]

Alright let's all take a step back here <I am speaking as a moderator>, and relax. <moderator hat off>

Without my getting into it. The points are that a submarine may have picked up the pinging and the government it was attached to may have classified that knowledge. The opposite point is it is quite likely that a submarine did not hear this (there are not that many submarines in the ocean and they generally cannot hear for thousands of kilometers), and even if they did hear these sounds (plane hitting the water, or the pinging) the crew of the submarine may not have recognized the significance.

The other point was that if you are going to claim something and you want anyone to listen to it, it is wise to demonstrate that you have some knowledge in the subject (submarines and sonar in this case).

Anyhow lets keep it civil shall we?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by guntherprien

I don't recall inviting you into this conversation.

It's an open internet forum. Did someone invite you to post in the first place? Anyone can say anything they want, as long as they don't violate the forum rules.

Don't be so rude.
Have some manners instead of jumping into a full frontal attack,I know you're only trying to bolster your pal's response,but a little decorum goes a long way.

How exactly was I rude? By posting a response on a forum?

All I'm asking is for people to think outside of the box,instead of believing everything they hear.

You did much more than that. You said flat out that the government knows exactly where the plane is but is covering it up.

A disappearance of this magnitude is unprecedented,my source says there is more to it than meets the eye (which is obvious).

Your unnamed source known only to you. Again, why should anyone believe you on your word alone?

It's absurd of you to ask me to back up 'my claim' that the govt. knows where it is,I was saying that there is no chance that if the plane crashed into the ocean that modern subs wouldn't have picked up the black box pings within 30 days.

You said the government knows where it is, and is covering it up. You stated it as a fact, rather than your opinion. A fact can be shown, or else it's not a fact. If you can't show it, then it's your opinion.

Like I said,a little broader vision brings with it,it's own conclusions.
Best wishes and no offense taken/meant.

But in a debate a statement must be backed up with facts, or else it is just opinion. Vision has nothing to do with it. What you say may be true, but you can't expect people to take your word for it, especially when you accuse others of swallowing lies. Until disproven, the government story may also be true.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by guntherprien

All I'm asking is for people to think outside of the box,instead of believing everything they hear.
A disappearance of this magnitude is unprecedented,my source says there is more to it than meets the eye (which is obvious).
I was saying that there is no chance that if the plane crashed into the ocean that modern subs wouldn't have picked up the black box pings within 30 days.
Like I said,a little broader vision brings with it,it's own conclusions.

Think outside the box, eye ...

A little broader vision, eye ...


I think they should go down and get the whole thing back up after they find it. Then we can see who was flying the darn thing and recover more than just a little black box.

The Glomar Explorer could sure come in handy to get the whole plane and it just happens to be drilling for oil in the Indian Ocean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSF_Explorer

http://hnsa.org/doc/glomarexplorer/index.htm

[Jimbuna]

Hopefully something will be found in the next couple of days.

The search area for the missing MH370 plane has narrowed and will be at "a critical juncture" in the next two days, says Malaysia's acting transport minister.

Hishammuddin Hussein said an underwater drone would finish searching the area within the next week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27086583

[August]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

The Glomar Explorer could sure come in handy to get the whole plane and it just happens to be drilling for oil in the Indian Ocean

I wonder about that. Didn't they screw up the only time they ever tried to lift a sunken vessel and nearly cause a nuclear detonation?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

I wonder about that. Didn't they screw up the only time they ever tried to lift a sunken vessel and nearly cause a nuclear detonation?

In their defence, it's not every day that a missile submarine is hauled up from such depths...that also being said, no pictures of what was recovered have ever been published...

Not wanting to be another person in this thread to go into full on conspiracy mode, but I think that they recovered a bit more of K-129 than is officially let on. Not a full wreck, obviously, but more than is commonly told.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Oberon

In their defence, it's not every day that a missile submarine is hauled up from such depths...that also being said, no pictures of what was recovered have ever been published...

Not wanting to be another person in this thread to go into full on conspiracy mode, but I think that they recovered a bit more of K-129 than is officially let on. Not a full wreck, obviously, but more than is commonly told.

Oh they probably did get more then what they said the got. Has anyone actually visited the wreck site since then?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Admiral Halsey

Oh they probably did get more then what they said the got. Has anyone actually visited the wreck site since then?

The site's location is classified, and it's about 5,000 to 6,000m down (approx 16,000 to 20,000ft), so it would take a lot of effort to get to it.

[guntherprien]

Originally Posted by Oberon

In their defence, it's not every day that a missile submarine is hauled up from such depths...that also being said, no pictures of what was recovered have ever been published...

Not wanting to be another person in this thread to go into full on conspiracy mode, but I think that they recovered a bit more of K-129 than is officially let on. Not a full wreck, obviously, but more than is commonly told.

Hi,welcome to the conspiracy mode nutters party.
Unless you can provide solid links (to the recovery of the nukes),particularly ones that are covered under the official secrets act,you will be ,like me,consigned to the fringes.
Welcome aboard!
Oh,and btw,submarines can pick up sounds continents away,yes,thousands of miles,did the nay sayers not know that?
My source is an officer in the RN,aboard an SSN,he is my mates uncle,he says things he shouldn't really.
And the poster (s) that mentioned salinity layers,need to get out of ww2 mode,that ceased to be a factor many years ago,SOSUS amongst others put paid to that.
Things like magnetic anomalies and satellite imagery and the actual displacement of the vessels are all amongst the many factors of submarine detection these days.

Happy Easter to you all.

[STEED]

We're running out of horses to flog better check eBay.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by guntherprien

Hi,welcome to the conspiracy mode nutters party.
Unless you can provide solid links (to the recovery of the nukes),particularly ones that are covered under the official secrets act,you will be ,like me,consigned to the fringes.

Just to be clear on my part in this, I don't consider you to be a "nutter" or on the fringes. For me it's much simpler. In any debate, if you make a claim, especially one not accompanied by "I think" or "I believe", you should be able to back it up, or else it's not worth the paper it's printed on. No one should be expected to take anyone's word for anything. An acknowledged expert in a field has an advantage, but then an expert in the field has access to the facts. "Believe me, I know this" is never good enough.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by August

I wonder about that. Didn't they screw up the only time they ever tried to lift a sunken vessel and nearly cause a nuclear detonation?

They did have problems raising the submarine, but it was full of water and made out of steel and displaced a lot more than a Boeing 777 would.

One odd report I heard was that the submarine broke off and all they got was the torpedo room, but another report I heard said that they got the radio room and the missiles which are housed in the sail I think.

Oh well if they don't find it they can't bring it up and the people searching for the plane said they are going to complete their search next week.

So this is not going to go on forever ...

[August]

Yeah and I guess that all sorts of related technologies have come along way too. About the only thing still left on that ship that was used back in 1968 was her hull.