Taxes done right?

[Oberon]

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Makes sense if you think about it.

[Sailor Steve]

He left off the unknown knowns. I'm sure there are things I don't know that I know.

[fireftr18]

Originally Posted by August

Makes sense if you think about it.

But it hurts my brain.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Guys like Ross Perot out there, and "we" got guys like Rummy in charge. sheeple.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Well I'm jealous

Originally Posted by Betonov

Thats a low tax rate if I ever saw one.

Let's see...on April 3rd I picked up a paycheck for $31.35 and paid $2.40 in tax.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

Let's see...on April 3rd I picked up a paycheck for $31.35 and paid $2.40 in tax.

Just fund my tax report.
I made €12 000 (aprox.) and payed €2 120 in taxes last year.
Highway robbery I say

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Just fund my tax report.
I made €12 000 (aprox.) and payed €2 120 in taxes last year.
Highway robbery I say

It'S more. Add to it the taxes like VAT and so on, that are not liksted on your payroll. when you fill your car'S tank. Go to movies. Use a copy machine. Pay for your new Id card when the old one became invalid.

Then, mandatory insurances. In Germany, you cannot legally work without having some of them.

In Germany at least, the ordinary employee and worker must allow to have more than half of his income being stolen from him. Legally.

Believe me, its true. Over one half.

[Betonov]

I was refering to income tax.

Medical insurances and social insurance are payed by my employer. Probably my wage wouldn't be higher without them, only his takings so I don't care about that.

VAT and road tax and the rest of them, those are voluntary. Don't want to pay a road tax, don't own a car, don't want to pay VAT, don' buy things.

I don't mind paying taxes. The new road and fibreoptic line on my street was payed by taxes. My successful asthma treatment was payed by insurance and taxes, the paramedics that helped my mother were payed by taxes and the ambulance was payed by taxes.
Only the taxes being used for the upkeep of the retard-fest called the government are the ones that I have a problem with

[swamprat69er]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Only the taxes being used for the upkeep of the retard-fest called the government are the ones that I have a problem with

Retard-fest. I love it!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Betonov

I was refering to income tax.

Medical insurances and social insurance are payed by my employer. Probably my wage wouldn't be higher without them, only his takings so I don't care about that.

VAT and road tax and the rest of them, those are voluntary. Don't want to pay a road tax, don't own a car, don't want to pay VAT, don' buy things.

I don't mind paying taxes. The new road and fibreoptic line on my street was payed by taxes. My successful asthma treatment was payed by insurance and taxes, the paramedics that helped my mother were payed by taxes and the ambulance was payed by taxes.
Only the taxes being used for the upkeep of the retard-fest called the government are the ones that I have a problem with

Why have you not done private insurance deals for your asthma and hospital costs? You want faster internet - why must all others pay for it, why not just yourself and those wanting it? The paramedics helped your family out - what is so immoral in expecting you to come up for the costs, why must all others budget you?

And in your country you people really can step to the cashdesk and decide all by yourself whether you want to pay VAT this day, or not? I don'T believe that.

Solidarity that is enforced, is no solidarity, but force, because solidarity necessarily has voluntariness as a precondition. And those who always speak of this social solidarity, in the end mean just this: all others pay for me.

I refuse to be solidary, refusing that has become a moral imperative and a demand of reason in these crazy times of ours. People can ask me whether I help them out or not, or whether I contribute to somethign they want to see getting done, or not. But the choice must be mine. Where I am forced to comply with some stranger's demands and must pay for him whether I want it or not, I turn hostile nowadays.

And for myself, I also do not want free rides, btw. The costs of my educaiton have been payed for - by the taxes of my father over that time. I do not buy into this criminal "Umlagesystem" (no English translation found, I mean)that was implemented after WWII, it always remains to be a crime against the following generation, always. It is like a chain mail system. My insurance sees me paying more into it, then I have taken in returns. One occasion where I needed an ambulance after I was stabbed down some years ago, saw me making a voluntary donation to the Maltheser organisation of 300 Euros. Back then I still had not dived that deep into libertarian politics and economics like I have in the past 2 years or so, but already back then I hated to have debts with somebody.

A recent study by the OECD confirmed Germany being at the global top of tax liabilities for citizens in the various countries, over 49% of wages get stolen by the state for income tax and social taxes. Add to this consumer taxes and VAT , and you easily end up far beyond the 60% mark. Even Sweden has learned after the partial collapse of its socialist utopia of the 80s' dreams that such taxation levels are poison, and had them cut back . In Germany, our people are mentally so damaged that they even demand to get taxed more! People want it! It is here where I realise that the situation is really hopeless. Its a typical German deformation, Germans are not any less missionary than Americans are, we only are like that in a very different manner. But both expect that sooner or later all the world would follow their wonderful example they have set.

Even when haying payed for that ambulance, voluntarily, taxes I must accept to get betrayed over nevertheless. I would prefer to have all thta money given by me used for purposes that I decide on, in my region and place of living, over issues I am in any way linked to, are affected by. I do not carer for maintaining an Autobahn in Bavaria. I care for maintaining an Autobahn here in the Münsterland, and want the Bavarians not caring for ours, but theirs. I do not see why the money for that must be given to bureaucrats in berlin and Brussels knowing nothign about that, and distributing nation-wide money pools via so many instances in the middle to their final purposes that the deciding polticians are totally disconnected from. We people in the Münsterland could very well decide and organise autobahn maintenance all by ourselves, or let it be done by those wanting to use that part of the autobahn - and then have them the costs added to the prices of consumer goods (instead of VAT) and road toll systems. Those using the autobahn, pay via street toll when driving on that autobahn. Those not using the autobahn, but profiteering from havign their consumer goods being transported via the autobahn, pay via the price for consumer goods that has the costs for the autobahn calculated into it, like now the VAT is included in it. - Just a principle example. Most things could be organsied like this, regionally, locally, via private contracts - no need for politicians overwatching it: education, healthcare, police, fire brigades, cultural life... People pay for what they use, they do not pay for what they do not use. If a business or service stops to exist because not sufficient people were willing to pay for it, then this simply means the demand was too low for that service. Just make sure there is competition between companies offering such services, and no monopoles and cartels being formed up. If people want a cultural life ion their town, they will pay for it. If they do not want to pay for it, then obviously it is not worth it to them. The few wanting it nevertheless have no right to force the majority to nevertheless subsidize it. If they see their future threatened by to low educaiton and cultural life standards, they will pay for increasing them. If they will not do that, they will have to live with the consequences. But it is THEIR decision. Not yours, not mine, not thta of some feudal sun king in a distant capital telling them "You MUST!" and "You SHALL NOT!"

Politicians are a disturbance variable only. And they live parasitically by people accepting their useless existence. They bribe people into handing over their freedom and self-responsibility to them, and in return get material 24/7 nursing and in the end total dependence form the state. Great things will come from such a dozing, lazy, incompetent, cowardly population that even expects getting its baby ar$e$ wiped by the government!

Pay for what you take, do noit take what is not yours, make your bills and debts straight, do not spend more and demand more than you can afford, if you have ambitions: prepare the basic groundwork first enabling you to realise them - do not dare for even one minute to assume that the others owe it to you. They don't owe you anything more than just the fulfillment of their part of any deal you negotiated with them.

Where the heck are politicians and governments needed in all this?

And what shall it be now - do we formally guarantee the freedom to own private property - or do we not, instead allowing the majority to decide over partial expropriation, and legalizing theft and looting? When two wolves and a lamb have a vote on what shall be up for dinner, how will it end?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Just fund my tax report.
I made €12 000 (aprox.) and payed €2 120 in taxes last year.
Highway robbery I say

This poor old pensioner wouldn't mind swapping ya

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

This poor old pensioner wouldn't mind swapping ya

You'd be shocked with how little you get by with a €1000 per month here.
European prices, Balkan wages

[Skybird]

Thanks to mapuc I learned about this news site, and found this article there:

LINK - 18 Stats That Prove That Government Dependence Has Reached Epidemic Levels

They give a list of 18 items that are worth to be taken note of. Each includes a link to the original news source.

It illustrates my argument that the insane polciies of democratic states lead to a situation where more and more dpeneding people get artifically created - and few and fewer people most shoulder higher and higher costs to finance them with their work. Also, my argument was and is that growing social policies discourage self-responsibility and invite people to trade freedom for material benefits that got stolen from others before.

There are more and more wolves, and few and fewer lambs.

One wonders what will happen when the wolves run out of lambs.