Swastikas and Germany in the modern day...

Skybird · 04-06-14, 06:01 AM

For the third time now: the philosophical-idealistic basis and the resulting cultural climate that allowed the thinking behind the constitutions, may it be the American one or the French declaration of human and civil rights, precedes the writing of said documents, and is not an original American quality, but has been envisioned and prepared by French front thinkers, and probably some other influential guys as well. You are under the - most likely wrong - impression that whoever wrote a constitution first, was necessarily the one inventing all by himself the idealistic basis on which that thinking based. And that is very unreasonable to assume, not just in this example, but in history in general. No thinking falls just out of the blue sky, but has a history leading to it. The situation in early America allowed to pick up these early ideas and to lead them further, benefiting from the lack of European-wide suppression of certain thoughts. That does not change the fact that the ideas and ideals nevertheless had started to find their way into some thinkers mind. And that goes beyond just mere idealism, but also includes economic and financial concepts developed by some Belgian and French that influenced the thinking of some of the founding fathers as well.

It is absurd to assume that any place there is is isolated from the rest of the world and breeds all stuff happening there all by itself. History and tradition never just pops up surprisingly and out of the blue.

That denies maybe some beloved unique feature of some Americans' self-description, nevertheless I'm stating the obvious only. Not to mention that the concept of democracy precedes French and American constitutions by over two thousand years and more anyway. And for the most of that time, it had a very low reputation. The modern praise for it is hardly older than just one century. And to me, it is not only a young but also a highly questionable concept that threatens to destroy right those achievements we usually attribute to it - for reasons wiser minds have already foreseen two or three millenia before. Also, the material wealth of Western nations is not due to democracy, but capitalism and trade. Capitalism is not successful due to democracy ruling, but right because it is so strong a power and attractive for free people that it even works when being massively hindered, defamed and exploited by democracy.

When that no longer is the case and "democracy" has successfully gagged even the last capitalist influence and reason - then the transformation into totalitarian socialism is completed.

Straying off a bit here, now compare the state of things and the highly visible trends in the US, its clear shifting towards the European vision of state socialism, consider the drowning in debts and devaluation of money and the follow-up expropriation that means, consider the massive demographic and ethnic changes in population satructure and the different demands and goials directed at polticians who want to get elected - and then anybody seriously tell me that that is just a minor slip and does not mean a major, huge gap between the US how it is, and the ideas how it hopefully would be as expressed in those old historic documents.

The EU violates and betrays its own laws and treaties, and its people. German parliament and government betrays and violates demands of our laws and the Basic Law. Constitutional organs are corrupted by now and all are brought into line to help in that abuse. And I cannot see that things are running differently in the US: the same betrayal, the same abuse and corruption.

areo16 · 04-06-14, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

That denies maybe some beloved unique feature of some Americans' self-description, nevertheless I'm stating the obvious only.

You are stating the obvious. This still does not mean the US Constitution is not unique, as you stated earlier. It is unique.

Skybird · 04-07-14, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16

You are stating the obvious. This still does not mean the US Constitution is not unique, as you stated earlier. It is unique.

You remind me of a dog chasing its tail and then wanting to tell me it were running down a straight line.

If after I think three explanations what I am about and three efforts to point out that the thinking in the constitution did not just fell out of the blue sky, you still have not understood me, then a fourth time obviously promises to be in vein.

04-06-14, 06:01 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,637 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	For the third time now: the philosophical-idealistic basis and the resulting cultural climate that allowed the thinking behind the constitutions, may it be the American one or the French declaration of human and civil rights, precedes the writing of said documents, and is not an original American quality, but has been envisioned and prepared by French front thinkers, and probably some other influential guys as well. You are under the - most likely wrong - impression that whoever wrote a constitution first, was necessarily the one inventing all by himself the idealistic basis on which that thinking based. And that is very unreasonable to assume, not just in this example, but in history in general. No thinking falls just out of the blue sky, but has a history leading to it. The situation in early America allowed to pick up these early ideas and to lead them further, benefiting from the lack of European-wide suppression of certain thoughts. That does not change the fact that the ideas and ideals nevertheless had started to find their way into some thinkers mind. And that goes beyond just mere idealism, but also includes economic and financial concepts developed by some Belgian and French that influenced the thinking of some of the founding fathers as well. It is absurd to assume that any place there is is isolated from the rest of the world and breeds all stuff happening there all by itself. History and tradition never just pops up surprisingly and out of the blue. That denies maybe some beloved unique feature of some Americans' self-description, nevertheless I'm stating the obvious only. Not to mention that the concept of democracy precedes French and American constitutions by over two thousand years and more anyway. And for the most of that time, it had a very low reputation. The modern praise for it is hardly older than just one century. And to me, it is not only a young but also a highly questionable concept that threatens to destroy right those achievements we usually attribute to it - for reasons wiser minds have already foreseen two or three millenia before. Also, the material wealth of Western nations is not due to democracy, but capitalism and trade. Capitalism is not successful due to democracy ruling, but right because it is so strong a power and attractive for free people that it even works when being massively hindered, defamed and exploited by democracy. When that no longer is the case and "democracy" has successfully gagged even the last capitalist influence and reason - then the transformation into totalitarian socialism is completed. Straying off a bit here, now compare the state of things and the highly visible trends in the US, its clear shifting towards the European vision of state socialism, consider the drowning in debts and devaluation of money and the follow-up expropriation that means, consider the massive demographic and ethnic changes in population satructure and the different demands and goials directed at polticians who want to get elected - and then anybody seriously tell me that that is just a minor slip and does not mean a major, huge gap between the US how it is, and the ideas how it hopefully would be as expressed in those old historic documents. The EU violates and betrays its own laws and treaties, and its people. German parliament and government betrays and violates demands of our laws and the Basic Law. Constitutional organs are corrupted by now and all are brought into line to help in that abuse. And I cannot see that things are running differently in the US: the same betrayal, the same abuse and corruption. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.