Convoy spacing in new missions

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by tater

The largest failing is the lack of an organic "zig-zag" capability in any of the game engines.
...........

I agree. This would be a very big step up, in the realism dept.

[Hitman]

if you take a group of ships, out of 15 or 20 in a convoy there will most of the time be 3 or 4 that turn away while the others are quite happy and content holding the formation at "reasonable" distance. i think for most people, what "looks" like safe spacing distance can be too close by game standards as well as RL distances.

One often overlooked thing is that ships on the external columns should have the capability of running much faster than the set convoy speed. Otherwise they will never be able to keep station on the big circle they have to make around the convoy's pivot point when it changes direction.

SH4 does not recognize the difference between zig-zagging as a simple heading change pivoting on the same point, and a true course change of the whole convoy. It always asumes the latter, hence setting zig zagging patterns in the capmpaign files is not effective and tends to break up convoys.

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by Hitman

...It always asumes the latter, hence setting zig zagging patterns in the capmpaign files is not effective and tends to break up convoys.

Hi Hitman,

what do you mean with this I extensively use zigzagging convoys in my SH3 installation and it's quite effective (around every 16km and an angle variation of +/-25°). I've also never seen a broken convoy

Cheers, LGN1

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by LGN1

Hi Hitman,

what do you mean with this I extensively use zigzagging convoys in my SH3 installation and it's quite effective (around every 16km and an angle variation of +/-25°). I've also never seen a broken convoy

Cheers, LGN1

Any vessel on the outside of a formation, that makes a pivot must move faster or fall behind. The same problem existed with heavy bomber formations when they turned.

One zig every 16 km isn't really a tactical zig pattern. At 8 kts., that's only about once per hour. One zig in 6 min. was more the norm in RL.

***

Perhaps, limiting the number of columns to 2 or 3 would help?

Personally, I would be content to have fewer large convoys in exchange for more zigging. However, Ducimus said that frequent zigs taxed the computer and slowed things down. How much of a problem was this?

[LGN1]

Hi,

I understand this, but I have never seen any problem with this Maybe because I limit the convoy speed and the max. column size and thus, the outer ships can always easily catch up

I agree that it's not like a historical zigzag pattern, however, it makes the game significantly harder at least for me. Attacking/Shadowing a late-war convoy in the Atlantic without map updates and many escorts with radar is now really tough.

Cheers, LGN1

[TG626]

I have no issue with you guys debating how SHIII works, but I thought it worth pointing out that this was an SHIV thread. Perhaps SHIV behaves differently then SHIII in this regard?

In any case, 1km keeps the skippers from having a panic attack so that's the golden distance for me when building missions in SHIV.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by LGN1

Hi,

I understand this, but I have never seen any problem with this Maybe because I limit the convoy speed and the max. column size and thus, the outer ships can always easily catch up

Yes, that sounds like a good idea.

I agree about having some zigs making things harder. Anything that makes the targets a little more unpredictable is to the good. It's just a pity that the game does not permit more of it.

[Hitman]

what do you mean with this I extensively use zigzagging convoys in my SH3 installation and it's quite effective (around every 16km and an angle variation of +/-25°). I've also never seen a broken convoy

There are two types of zig zag that the convoys did in real life:

1) Helm change, where the formation would keep the general course, but for some minutes changed helm to a different heading (returning to the original main course inmediately after that). There were alarm clocks at the helmsman station that ringed f.e. every 5 minutes to remind the helmsman to change course again. This was done to avoid incoming torpedoes and difficult the uboat ascertaining the real true course.

2) Complete course change, where the whole convoy would steer a different course altogether. While doing the 5 minutes helm changes around it, of course. This was done to shake pursuers and confuse about the real course steered in the long run.


In the first case, because alls hips changed heading simultaneously, the aspect of the formation (viewed from above) changed accordingly, for example a perfect square would become a rhombus or diamond when they all change helm 45º

In the second case, the whole formation changes course and the ships on the outside must speed up to catch the relative position they had to the rest before. This happened every as many hours as the convoy commander decided and usually always at least once after dark so as to lose any pursuing uboats easier.

SH3/4 can only do the second thing.