How Islamic inventors changed the world

[STEED]

We are all used to the conventional explosives, sooner or later the next level will be the dirty bomb.

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB Posted

Watch it Abraham, according to open-arms-warm-welcoming Type XXIII, you are acting as an Islamophobe.

Do it like him and praise something, quick!

Naw, I can't believe anybody is going to say something that stupid about me...
Actually I think Islam is in great danger in this modern world and resorts to reactionary tactics to survive unchanged. It's really like a dinosaur that doesn't adapt to modernity. It can only survive in a backwards, undevelloped, reactionary, protected environment, not (unchanged) in the rest of the world... Look how they reacted to some innocent cartoons, for Mohammed's sake! (Or is that remark politically incorrect and should I say: "for Christ's sake"? I'm really in doubt now, perhaps it should be: "For G-d's sake"?).

Am I Islamophobe? Rather the contrary!

Originally Posted by Bertgang

Not so true, if you think with an historical perspective.
Christian culture, specially catholic culture (the mine), was for century against investigative, exploratory, creative, scientific and critical thinking: this nasty attitude, a strong brake for any scientific and social development, has changed since no so long time.

Now it's so easy and cheap to tell something against Islam, as too many bad apples pretend to be the perfect believers of Allah, but religion has little to do with their actions.

Terrorism is an old European invention, then exported and modified for a new environement.
Some historical types, peculiar to my country:
Patriot terrorism, against foreign rulers (mainly austrians);
German terrorism, by people of South Tyrol under italian rule;
Red terrorism, made by people close to communism;
Black terrorism, made by people close to fascism.

Not speaking of other european countries with different problems.

I don't agree at all with your comment.
Being a Christian myself (Protestant) I have nothing against religion in general. A blessing for Christianity was that the rigid medieval thinking of the Catholic Church - only slightly more modern than Muslim thinking of the 7th and 8th Century - was woken up by the great Roman thinker Thomas Aquinas, who set into movement the modern thinking about church authority and state authority, which led to the Renaissance, consequently the Reformation and finally the Enlightment. The end result of this phantastic devellopment is the separation of the powers of State and Church in the modern world, freedom of religion and (other) Human Rights. I could dwell on on this subject as long as Skybird on Islam...
All this came after often fierce conflicts, but the result has been a burst of progress in the Western world and a superior western culture that can be called dominant in much of the world.

You don't give any examples of the Islam not prohibiting investigative, exploratory, creative, scientific and critical thinking, as my point was.
The examples of terror in Europe that you give were clearly abberations of the normal rule of law, done by relatively small social groups, which violence was never condoned by the population at large (or the Church) and corrected by the respective societies themselves.

To counter any cheap arguments: I'm not saying that our Western society is perfect. I'm saying we've come a long way (with ups and downs) from solving conflicts between religions and between states and their subjects in an orderly way by thre rule of law.
Compare that to the Sharia...

[Type XXIII]

Islamophobe was a hyperbole. Though some of you are exhibiting a clear fear of Islam. (I'm deliberately not mentioning specific persons.)

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

open-arms-warm-welcoming Type XXIII

Can you please start reading my posts from a different perspective than trying to prove I'm naïve and ignorant? That I'm less anti-Islam than you doesn't automatically mean I'm pro-Islam.

[zombiewolf]

I remember when the country of Israel was invented along with terrorism( Irgun Zvai Leumi) attacks. Menachem Begin.Everheard of him .
I lost an uncle in that stuff.

Contacting the dormant Jewish underground, Irgun Zvai Leumi, Begin set about planning a Jewish uprising against the British authorities. This began in 1944, but increased in pace and scope immediately after World War II and continued until late 1947. Begin ordered many of the Irgun's operations, including the Akko prison breakout and the destruction of the central British administrative offices in the King David Hotel. Following the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Begin disbanded the Irgun.

Everybody has their version of history.
People are people, politics is what bugs me

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by zombiewolf

I remember when the country of Israel was invented along with terrorism( Irgun Zvai Leumi) attacks. Menachem Begin.Everheard of him .
I lost an uncle in that stuff.

Contacting the dormant Jewish underground, Irgun Zvai Leumi, Begin set about planning a Jewish uprising against the British authorities. This began in 1944, but increased in pace and scope immediately after World War II and continued until late 1947. Begin ordered many of the Irgun's operations, including the Akko prison breakout and the destruction of the central British administrative offices in the King David Hotel. Following the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Begin disbanded the Irgun.

Everybody has their version of history.
People are people, politics is what bugs me

Your first statement trips me out a little...If Isreal was only "Invented" in 1944 why do scrolls carbon dated in the B.C. time zone speak of a country called "Isreal"...

Exodus 1
[1] Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.

Isreal has been around alooooooong time me thinks....and you know as well as me is Not the idea of a country of Isreal but Who has "Rights" to it..legally,morally, or whatever.....and "Terrorism" has been around since dirt was made....the Horror.....the Horror....If ya follow the logic of the scientist then I think you should listen and look at your own evidence that slaps you in the face.....scrolls dated pre-B.C. tell you all about who owns or has rights to the land of Isreal and to ignore the "Scientific' facts well now is just pigheadedness and stubborn in my opinion....but hey...opinions.

Maybe the Dead Sea Scrolls were just invented by alines to throw everyone off the trail.

[TteFAboB]

Originally Posted by Type XXIII

Islamophobe was a hyperbole. Though some of you are exhibiting a clear fear of Islam. (I'm deliberately not mentioning specific persons.)

Can you please start reading my posts from a different perspective than trying to prove I'm naïve and ignorant? That I'm less anti-Islam than you doesn't automatically mean I'm pro-Islam.

But we're both Pro-Islam and Anti-Islam, who's more than the other I don't know. We are both pro a modern Islam, a reformed Islam much like the one European Muslim immigrants had to create to live in harmony in Europe. Instead of this minor personally reformed Islam, I assume we would both like if this sort of decent Islam was the mainstream, in the Mosques and in the mouth of the Immans in Europe.

Take the opposite of that and you know what we are both against.

So I ask you to do the same. Just because I'm more anti-Islam than you doesn't automatically mean I oppose Islam as a religion. I don't care about Islam, if Islam demanded its followers to cut off their testicles at a random point in life, I wouldn't bother with the butchery, it'd be their choice. I only bother because Islam has been hijacked and kept in captivity since birth to be used against me. They want to cut my testicles off. And the fine, peacefull Muslims who have no problems with my corporeal extensions are either voluntarily mute in a consenting silence or silenced by those who want people like me to shut up.

[Sixpack]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

I don't care about Islam, if Islam demanded its followers to cut off their testicles at a random point in life, I wouldn't bother with the butchery, it'd be their choice. I only bother because Islam has been hijacked and kept in captivity since birth to be used against me. They want to cut my testicles off. And the fine, peacefull Muslims who have no problems with my corporeal extensions are either voluntarily mute in a consenting silence or silenced by those who want people like me to shut up.

Point graphically yet very well put !

[bradclark1]

Iceman,
Curious. Do you spell Israel Isreal on purpose?