Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine - Page 49

MH · 03-19-14, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

If the wests plan to isolate Russia from most of the rest of the world succeeds, that may only stregthen the resolve of Putin and put many Russians in the frame of mind to support their leader.

I doubt anyone knows for sure how yhis will all end...least of all Putin.

Possibly...
Russian GDP which is mostly natural resources is controlled by very few oligarchs.
Putin's foreign policy being bad for business as it is might make them very unhappy.
So who knows what might happen.

Alex · 03-19-14, 03:58 PM

I'd like to take the opportunity to make a little compliment now, if you please.
And this one will be directed to the good Oberon. Actually, I can't find the words, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

And when it comes to news, I have also noticed an east/west split in regards to how the news regards the current Ukrainian regime, which is why I've been sampling news from both. You'll notice in this thread that I've been posting stories from both the BBC and Russia Today, which both have their own slants on the story.

Basically : whatever you read and watch, you always need to take everything with a pinch of salt, because there's propaganda on every side, period.
Way to appreciate this point of view, definitely a very good way to make your opinion on any matter, really.

Obe's wife at work, I suppose

(with all due respect to you Oberon, I'm certainly not trying to upset you in any way actually)
This guy is a good one, you know.

So, taking Oberon as an example

, here's me giving you all open-minded people - I don't view anyone in here as being chauvinistic, biased or over-patriotic in the very least - a helping hand there, just so everyone can form his own independent judgement following so much time spent eating Western propaganda - according to which there are only 2 things in the world : the West, and the wrong.

This article (of which I quoted parts - a quote a big long, sorry, but I couldn't quote a smaller part of it to be fair, really) is the one of Dr. Kevin Barrett, a Ph.D. Arabist-Islamologist, one of America's best-known critics of the War on Terror.

Quote:

Wanna read the full article ? Click here.

Oberon · 03-19-14, 04:05 PM

Merci beaucoup, Alex.

The wife says that the money is in the post.

I did find, a short while ago, a new source for information from the Ukraine which is based more around factual gathering than analysis, and takes information from a widespread amount of sources from Associated Press to Al Jazerra to Pravda, all gathered together in once place.

The Ukrainian news update reddit thread:
http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2r...ciytwcxadi?t=t

In an aside ponderance, I do wonder, with the age of crowd-sourced information whether the news organisations need to sit up and take note of such efforts that might one day overshadow their own presentations.

August · 03-19-14, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Dr. Kevin Barrett, a Ph.D. Arabist-Islamologist, one of America's best-known critics of the War on Terror.

Never heard of him and what the heck is an "Arabist-Islamologist"?

Oberon · 03-19-14, 04:15 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Barrett

Holder of some...interesting beliefs...

Skybird · 03-19-14, 04:37 PM

http://amnesty.org/en/news/oleksandr...ack-2014-03-19

Ukrainian "democrats" from the fascist Svoboda party visited the chief of an Ukrainian TV broadcaster, beat him, intimidated him, and forced him to write his own resignation. Among the attacks was the chief of the Svoboda party, which maintains close ties to German Nazi party NPD and other European Nazi factions (I linked a news story on that earlier).

This is the kind of thugs that currently holds several key posts in the government and which is greeted by the West as the legal representation of the ukrainian people, and democratic government.

An opposition or interim government that tolerates such scum in its middle, does not deserve any sympathy or aid from the West. But those current leaders not being Svoboda members, all too often have dubious links to organised crime and suspicious oligarchs themselves. And that is the kind of people the West now wants to support and shakes hand with. Unbelievable.

I found three videos of the incident at youtube, all of them with German subtitles only. I wonder why that is, do English media boycot this, does it blast precious illusions? Under Tymochenko, reporters also were thrown into prison, or were intimidated with that threat, while she filled her pockets. But the West still celebrates her as an icon of democratic opposition? How blind are we here in the West?

Video becomes really interesting somewhere around the middle.

The cream on top of it: the Svoboda chief also is head of the Ukrainian commission for free speech and free media.

You now can imagine how democratical and free any decisions and elections in the Ukrainian parliament will go along.

The TV man was hijacked and held prisoner for several hours after these scenes. He said later he had been seriously beaten up while being held in a secret place. I assume he feared for his life. He no longer works for that channel.

BTW, "Svoboda" means "freedom".

Freedom in fascist understanding.

No matter whether German or Italian, British or American, Ukrainian or Israeli (yes, there are Israeli fascists!) - Nazis belong to the scum of the Earth. But rarely are they so stupid like on this video - filming their heroic deeds themselves and let the world know what scum they are.

Or Svoboda simply gives sh!t for Western opinion, and only wanted to intimidate Ukrainian critics of their grab for power. And this is the place the EU is eager to sink billions of Euros into.

Super!

TarJak · 03-19-14, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Never heard of him and what the heck is an "Arabist-Islamologist"?

Seems to be some form of wife beating racist. Allegedly.

03-19-14, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Never heard of him and what the heck is an "Arabist-Islamologist"?

Well the language in the article is a bit of a giveaway, the source is an even bigger one.

So just another crazy kook who has this weird neo Nazi conspiracy thing about jews running the world and the ever lasting ever present global conspiracy of the NWO

All delivered courtesy of the mad mullahs running the fundamentalist theocracy in Tehran.

XabbaRus · 03-19-14, 04:50 PM

The way I see it Putin has what he has wanted The Crimea. He has no interest in the Baltic States no matter how much they bleat. He's well aware of the NATO treaty. So the Ukraine should be kept neutral. Out of EU and out of NATO. By an agreement NATO should never have expanded to Russia's border. I can see why Russia would be upset should NATO take on The Ukraine. You see while I don't agree how Putin had gone about things he and Russia do have some valid grievences. Could you imagine how the US would react if an exercise was held with Cuba in the gulf?

Skybird · 03-19-14, 05:04 PM

"Merkel holding things" - a series of carricatures/edited photos. This one being the best, with Putin edited into the pic.

Sailor Steve · 03-19-14, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Basically : whatever you read and watch, you always need to take everything with a pinch of salt, because there's propaganda on every side, period.

Unless I miss what you're trying to say, this seems to be a point you make to others but avoid yourself.

Quote:

This article

The point I take is that this gentleman (and you yourself) advises everyone to see American and European propaganda (which I don't deny exists) while ignoring that this very article is propaganda of the strongest sort. The author talks about Putin standing up to "western aggression...not only in the Ukraine...". He goes on to include Syria and Iran, which are a different subject, and there he does have an argument, but Ukraine? Russia has crossed the borders of a sovereign nation and imposed what is tantamount to martial law. What does "western aggression have to do with that? Is Putin protecing Ukraine from America? The Ukrainians don't seem to think so. XabbaRus makes a good point about our reaction if Russia held exercises in the Gulf of Mexico, but I would liken Russia's actions in the Ukraine to the US invading Mexico over our current border complaints.

So Alex, you warn us against swallowing certain propaganda, and rightly so, but you then seem to accept the opposite propaganda as Gospel Truth, and push it on us without questioning your own cherished beliefs. That "pinch of salt" works both ways.

nikimcbee · 03-19-14, 10:12 PM

The next time the bamster threatens Putin/Russia with [insert threat here], if I were a Russian politician

, I'd say something along the lines; "We were ready to negotiate, but your president was busy at the time."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...caa-tournament

meh,
Enjoy the Crimea, please stop there.

03-20-14, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

meh,
Enjoy the Crimea, please stop there.

Meh enjoy the Sudetenland, please stop there.

Now you wouldn't be one of the people who drew negative comparisons with Chamberlain in the past would you?

Oberon · 03-20-14, 06:46 AM

I must admit, I have kind of been hoping that there would be a big conference with Germany, UK, Russia and the US in Munich, but sadly they seem to be avoiding that place for some reason...

Jimbuna · 03-20-14, 07:03 AM

Well it certainly won't happen at what is now going to be called the G7 either.

03-19-14, 04:37 PM	#726
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,736 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	http://amnesty.org/en/news/oleksandr...ack-2014-03-19 Ukrainian "democrats" from the fascist Svoboda party visited the chief of an Ukrainian TV broadcaster, beat him, intimidated him, and forced him to write his own resignation. Among the attacks was the chief of the Svoboda party, which maintains close ties to German Nazi party NPD and other European Nazi factions (I linked a news story on that earlier). This is the kind of thugs that currently holds several key posts in the government and which is greeted by the West as the legal representation of the ukrainian people, and democratic government. An opposition or interim government that tolerates such scum in its middle, does not deserve any sympathy or aid from the West. But those current leaders not being Svoboda members, all too often have dubious links to organised crime and suspicious oligarchs themselves. And that is the kind of people the West now wants to support and shakes hand with. Unbelievable. I found three videos of the incident at youtube, all of them with German subtitles only. I wonder why that is, do English media boycot this, does it blast precious illusions? Under Tymochenko, reporters also were thrown into prison, or were intimidated with that threat, while she filled her pockets. But the West still celebrates her as an icon of democratic opposition? How blind are we here in the West? Video becomes really interesting somewhere around the middle. The cream on top of it: the Svoboda chief also is head of the Ukrainian commission for free speech and free media. You now can imagine how democratical and free any decisions and elections in the Ukrainian parliament will go along. The TV man was hijacked and held prisoner for several hours after these scenes. He said later he had been seriously beaten up while being held in a secret place. I assume he feared for his life. He no longer works for that channel. BTW, "Svoboda" means "freedom". Freedom in fascist understanding. No matter whether German or Italian, British or American, Ukrainian or Israeli (yes, there are Israeli fascists!) - Nazis belong to the scum of the Earth. But rarely are they so stupid like on this video - filming their heroic deeds themselves and let the world know what scum they are. Or Svoboda simply gives sh!t for Western opinion, and only wanted to intimidate Ukrainian critics of their grab for power. And this is the place the EU is eager to sink billions of Euros into. Super! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 03-19-14 at 04:49 PM.

03-19-14, 04:50 PM	#729
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The way I see it Putin has what he has wanted The Crimea. He has no interest in the Baltic States no matter how much they bleat. He's well aware of the NATO treaty. So the Ukraine should be kept neutral. Out of EU and out of NATO. By an agreement NATO should never have expanded to Russia's border. I can see why Russia would be upset should NATO take on The Ukraine. You see while I don't agree how Putin had gone about things he and Russia do have some valid grievences. Could you imagine how the US would react if an exercise was held with Cuba in the gulf? __________________

03-19-14, 05:04 PM	#730
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,736 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	"Merkel holding things" - a series of carricatures/edited photos. This one being the best, with Putin edited into the pic. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-19-14, 10:12 PM	#732
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	The next time the bamster threatens Putin/Russia with [insert threat here], if I were a Russian politician, I'd say something along the lines; "We were ready to negotiate, but your president was busy at the time." http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...caa-tournament meh, Enjoy the Crimea, please stop there. __________________

03-20-14, 07:03 AM	#735
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,142 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Well it certainly won't happen at what is now going to be called the G7 either. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-19-14, 04:05 PM	#723
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Merci beaucoup, Alex. The wife says that the money is in the post. I did find, a short while ago, a new source for information from the Ukraine which is based more around factual gathering than analysis, and takes information from a widespread amount of sources from Associated Press to Al Jazerra to Pravda, all gathered together in once place. The Ukrainian news update reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2r...ciytwcxadi?t=t In an aside ponderance, I do wonder, with the age of crowd-sourced information whether the news organisations need to sit up and take note of such efforts that might one day overshadow their own presentations.

03-19-14, 04:15 PM	#725
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Barrett Holder of some...interesting beliefs...

03-20-14, 06:46 AM	#734
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I must admit, I have kind of been hoping that there would be a big conference with Germany, UK, Russia and the US in Munich, but sadly they seem to be avoiding that place for some reason...