Malaysia airlines B777 missing - Page 4

Admiral Halsey · 03-09-14, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Only if they are looking in the right place and there's something afloat to find. Speculation is pointless uunless there is evidence to back it up.

Do you realize how much stuff in planes float? Heck even bits of the fuselage can float. If it exploded in mid-air there should be wreckage everywhere including in that oil slick.Heck even if it crashed into the water whole there should still be a nice amount of wreckage.

GoldenRivet · 03-09-14, 02:18 AM

They keep calling it an oil slick. Those engines don't need that much oil that it would cover a 6+ mile swath of ocean as reported. Most likely it's jet fuel.

If it is jet fuel. The plane came down in big pieces I would think, because an explosive large enough to disentegrate the airplane in flight probably would have resulted in most of the fuel burning up I would imagine.

They are going to start finding bits of her soon. Insulation. Plastics. Luggage. Debris. Possibly folks in rafts if lucky. That stuff floats. And Boeing can look at most small debris and determine if it's a 777 part.

Whatever it was probably happened fast. Think of the Alaska flight that had the elevator jack screw issue off the California coast. Those guys even had time to transmit their situation. And they were in a steep dive.

Double engine failure would have killed electrics. But they would have had RATs to generate power. In that scenario, would the RATs generate sufficient power to broadcast mayday over long distances? Perhaps they were calling and nobody heard them.

Catastrophic structural failure due to metal fatigue associated with pressurization issues

Volcanic ash

Terrorism

Flight control malfunction or failure

Lots of possibilities on the chalk board, now begins the long task of ruling them out one by one and determining the cause of the accident.

GoldenRivet · 03-09-14, 02:28 AM

Just read that new information indicates military radar tracked the aircraft and that the aircraft may have tried to turn back to its departure point.

http://news.yahoo.com/air-force-chie...060410114.html

If they lost power, the transponder would have stopped transmitting, the ATC radar would have lost tracking except for a "primary" target. Depending on the range, civilian radar might not have picked up the primary target without a working transponder.

Defense radar might have though... Hmmmmm

EDIT**

Appears to be confirmed. Defense radar indications at this point are said to have shown the aircraft making a turn back towards its departure point.

Admiral Halsey · 03-09-14, 03:17 AM

So the jet was trying to turn back? Ok somethings really not right here. That little air-powered generator they have should be powerful enough to give full radio broadcast strength. So if it was a double engine failure the question becomes why didn't the pilots send out a mayday?

CCIP · 03-09-14, 03:25 AM

I'm pretty sure all the emergency-crucial radio equipment is designed to run off the batteries, much like the black box.

TarJak · 03-09-14, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral Halsey

Do you realize how much stuff in planes float? Heck even bits of the fuselage can float. If it exploded in mid-air there should be wreckage everywhere including in that oil slick.Heck even if it crashed into the water whole there should still be a nice amount of wreckage.

I do. I worked for an airline for over 16 years.

Is there any evidence at present that the oil slick is from the aircraft? None mentioned in any of the media I've seen. Given the latest revelation about the military radar, it is just as likely that the oil slick came from a ship as from an aircraft and that they've been looking in the wrong place. As I said, unless there is evidence, speculation is pointless.

Based on this, they are looking into another two passengers as well as the ones with the stolen passports: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-0...arance/5308688

Skybird · 03-09-14, 06:36 AM

They already were almost above the coast of Vietnam when contact disappeared. If they turned back there (south) because there was a technical problem, this would have meant to cross all that open ocean again in search for that emergency landing site. Makes little sense.

Possible maybe that what appears to be a turn, was an involuntary turn already, with any kind of a problem present and having taken out comms and rudder already before.

Jimbuna · 03-09-14, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

They already were almost above the coast of Vietnam when contact disappeared. If they turned back there (south) because there was a technical problem, this would have meant to cross all that open ocean again in search for that emergency landing site. Makes little sense.

Possible maybe that what appears to be a turn, was an involuntary turn already, with any kind of a problem present and having taken out comms and rudder already before.

My thoughts also...that 'turn' could have been the start of an uncontrolled steep dive.

GoldenRivet · 03-09-14, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

My thoughts also...that 'turn' could have been the start of an uncontrolled steep dive.

Possible.

Skybird · 03-09-14, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

My thoughts also...that 'turn' could have been the start of an uncontrolled steep dive.

Or an Immelmann.

swamprat69er · 03-09-14, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Or an Immelmann.

I really can't see a 777 doing an Immelmann, but stranger things have been know to happen.

A split 'S' maybe?

McBeck · 03-09-14, 01:13 PM

What about a crazy Ivan?

Oberon · 03-09-14, 01:45 PM

Jimbuna · 03-09-14, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Or an Immelmann.

That's absolutely shocking

but I like it

NeonSamurai · 03-09-14, 03:03 PM

I'm not sure if it is very appropriate to be making jokes relating to the probable deaths of a couple hundred people.

03-09-14, 02:18 AM	#47
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	They keep calling it an oil slick. Those engines don't need that much oil that it would cover a 6+ mile swath of ocean as reported. Most likely it's jet fuel. If it is jet fuel. The plane came down in big pieces I would think, because an explosive large enough to disentegrate the airplane in flight probably would have resulted in most of the fuel burning up I would imagine. They are going to start finding bits of her soon. Insulation. Plastics. Luggage. Debris. Possibly folks in rafts if lucky. That stuff floats. And Boeing can look at most small debris and determine if it's a 777 part. Whatever it was probably happened fast. Think of the Alaska flight that had the elevator jack screw issue off the California coast. Those guys even had time to transmit their situation. And they were in a steep dive. Double engine failure would have killed electrics. But they would have had RATs to generate power. In that scenario, would the RATs generate sufficient power to broadcast mayday over long distances? Perhaps they were calling and nobody heard them. Catastrophic structural failure due to metal fatigue associated with pressurization issues Volcanic ash Terrorism Flight control malfunction or failure Lots of possibilities on the chalk board, now begins the long task of ruling them out one by one and determining the cause of the accident. __________________

03-09-14, 02:28 AM	#48
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Just read that new information indicates military radar tracked the aircraft and that the aircraft may have tried to turn back to its departure point. http://news.yahoo.com/air-force-chie...060410114.html If they lost power, the transponder would have stopped transmitting, the ATC radar would have lost tracking except for a "primary" target. Depending on the range, civilian radar might not have picked up the primary target without a working transponder. Defense radar might have though... Hmmmmm EDIT** Appears to be confirmed. Defense radar indications at this point are said to have shown the aircraft making a turn back towards its departure point. __________________ Last edited by GoldenRivet; 03-09-14 at 03:07 AM.

03-09-14, 03:25 AM	#50
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I'm pretty sure all the emergency-crucial radio equipment is designed to run off the batteries, much like the black box. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

03-09-14, 06:36 AM	#52
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,609 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	They already were almost above the coast of Vietnam when contact disappeared. If they turned back there (south) because there was a technical problem, this would have meant to cross all that open ocean again in search for that emergency landing site. Makes little sense. Possible maybe that what appears to be a turn, was an involuntary turn already, with any kind of a problem present and having taken out comms and rudder already before. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-09-14, 01:13 PM	#57
McBeck Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,027 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	What about a crazy Ivan? __________________ "I like subcommanders...they dont have time for bull**!" Proud member of the Subsim army of zombies Becks website

03-09-14, 03:17 AM	#49
Admiral Halsey Best Admiral in the USN Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: USS Enterprise (CV-6) Posts: 1,740 Downloads: 317 Uploads: 0	So the jet was trying to turn back? Ok somethings really not right here. That little air-powered generator they have should be powerful enough to give full radio broadcast strength. So if it was a double engine failure the question becomes why didn't the pilots send out a mayday?

03-09-14, 01:45 PM	#58
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20

03-09-14, 03:03 PM	#60
NeonSamurai Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Socialist Republic of Kanadia Posts: 3,044 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I'm not sure if it is very appropriate to be making jokes relating to the probable deaths of a couple hundred people. __________________ SH3 Newbie Guide Links and other helpfull stuff