Kalashnikov RIP

[MH]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

A firearm not directly but I have been places where that particular firearm could have been used to sling lead at yours truly.My father and two brothers have been on the "snap" end of an AK and they lack your opinion.
.

My point is that you don't want to be on receiving end of anything at all.
Not AK , m16 or crossbow for that matter.
Yet you want all the advantage you may have .
While AK is great basic rifle there are some others which are simply better in balancing different advantages and shortcomings.
M16 for example is one of them , wether by chance or foresight i don't know

I've been on the wrong end of the AK-47 and AK-74.
One of my newest employees caught an AK-47 round in the back in Afghanistan. That put him through 2 years of hell and another year getting off the drugs!

It may be a sub-par weapon when compared to what all is out there.
But it will, and still does, kill very well.
Even the wounds are no small matter.

[Stealhead]

I read in a book in one section they speak with this Kurd from Northern Iraq he was a body guard for some official that AQII wanted dead so they put a hit on him.They did not manage to kill the target but the bodyguard took 7 rounds from an AK-47.He survived but just barely and much of that was due to the fact that this guy was one tough cookie in very good shape which allowed him a better chance at surviving such a serious injury.Still though he has permanent injuries.

The book was Gun written by a former Marine infantryman about the AK47 though it is an honest book and does a very good job at being unbiased.Interesting read I learned a good bit about the early M16 that I only knew minor details about.

Another interesting bit which made the author want to write the book was when he was on another assignment in Afghanistan.While he was there he was taking a look at AK47s that some friendly Afghans had they where Frankensteins made of various parts but several had receivers produced in 1954.Now flip side of that coin some of the guerrillas in Laos fighting the communist government they carry 40+ year old M16s left over for Vietnam most not in the ideal condition but they still go bang most of the time same would apply to a ruddy AK not ideal but it works.

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

the bodyguard took 7 rounds from an AK-47.He survived but just barely and much of that was due to the fact that...

I'd say it mainly depends on where the rounds impact. For example you could empty an entire 30rd mag into someones hand and they would likely surivive (although they probably won't ever play the violin again).

[Stealhead]

Yeah I just checked the book which is entitled The Gun the Kurds name is Karzan Mahmoud and the doctors where able to determine that he was hit 23 times lucky as many where not "bad" hits but it certainly shattered him.

One solid hit from any round to the body or limbs is nothing to shake a stick at.

[Skybird]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25709371

[Dread Knot]

So, Kalashnikov felt some twinge of remorse toward the end.

I wonder if the faceless politicians and bureaucrats who licensed and sold the AK-47 in the millions abroad without his consent feel any?

[soopaman2]

They will be using his guns 200 years from now.

I have some range time with an AK. It is a simple weapon, very easy to use, you can ride them hard and put them away wet. It will still fire.

Parts for it are dime a dozen, and parts made in different countries will fit in them, making them a great doomsday weapon. The caliber of bullet is also superior to what Americans use in M16s.

Not as accurate, and it feels "loose" in your hands. Alot of muzzle jump, so your just spraying bullets when you rapid fire.You know your firing a cheap gun. But still I am a big fan of the Kalash.

[Ducimus]

Since this thread's bumped up, I may as well post this:

[Stealhead]

Nice video neat that he showed a Tavor I see why he calls it Hebrew Hammer I hear that they are pretty accurate good ergonomics as well.

[Oberon]

Understandable he felt remorse, I imagine many weapons designers did, look at Nobel, and Oppenheimer.

[Aktungbby]

Not to mention the world famous Winchester Mystery House in present day San José CA, built by Winchester's widow, Sara, into a bizarre 160 room mansion to appease the spirits of the dead victims of the Winchester Rifle. It's something off a first rate tourist trap but extremely interesting nonetheless. She feared the vengeful spirits of the dead Indians and built the false roomed and dead-end hallways abode to confuse the angry ghosts over many spiritually consumed years until her death. If memory serves however, at the Little Big Horn, Winchesters and Henry's were in the hands of the Sioux and Cheyenne warriors, not the troopers.

[August]

I just read a very interesting article that provides yet one more reason not to use an enemy weapon in combat.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=61f_1303788297

Secrets of the Vietnam War: Project "Eldest Son" - Top Secret U.S. S.O.G. Operation to Plant Sabotaged Ammunition in Enemy Hands

During the Vietnam War, the Studies And Observations Group (SOG) created an ingenious top-secret program called Project Eldest Son to wreak general mayhem and cause the Viet Cong and NVA to doubt the safety of their guns and ammunition.

Amid a firefight near the Cambodian border on June 6, 1968, a North Vietnamese Army soldier spotted an American G.I. raising his rifle, and the NVA infantryman pulled his trigger, anticipating a muzzle blast. He got a blast, alright, but not quite what he'd expected.
United States 1st Infantry Division troops later found the enemy soldier, sprawled beside his Chinese Type 56 AK, quite dead - but not from small-arms fire. Peculiarly, they could see, his rifle had exploded, its shattered receiver killing him instantly. It seemed a great mystery that his AK had blown up since nothing was blocking the bore. Bad metallurgy, the G.I.s concluded, or possibly defective ammo. It was neither.

In reality, this actual incident was the calculated handiwork of one the Vietnam War's most secret and least understood covert operations: Project Eldest Son. So secret was this sabotage effort that few G.I.s in Southeast Asia ever heard of it or the organization behind it, the innocuously named Studies and Observations Group. As the Vietnam War's top-secret special ops task force, SOG's operators - Army Special Forces, Air Force Air Commandos and Navy SEALs - worked directly for the Joint Chiefs, executing highly classified, deniable missions in the enemy's backyard of Laos, Cambodia and North Vietnam.

[Stealhead]

They also did 82mm mortar shells which I think was a wiser choice as the likelihood of a mortar being put into action by a friendly is lower than a common small arm which is much more likely to be used in a dire situation.

I read in a book by an SOG SFC that his team once found a crater along the Laotian border the crater was a former mortar crew that had dropped an Eldest Son shell down the tube.Of course SOG did a lot more recons and POW grabs than plant Eldest Son "surprises". Of course the goal was to plant just enough because too many exploding guns and tubes and they are gonna figure that something is up.The goal was to cause the typical NVA/VC to doubt his supply which I am fairly sure Project Eldest Son failed in that respect.That or NVA NCOs where very good at inspiring their troops.

Of course another little known Vietnam fact is that a South Korean company secretly made 7.62x39mm ammo which sheds light as to just how common use of the AK-47 was at least with SF.

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Of course SOG did a lot more recons and POW grabs than plant Eldest Son "surprises"

The way I read it Eldest Son was more like something that can be done to enemy ammunition caches that are discovered while on other missions and which cannot be secured or destroyed.

...which sheds light as to just how common use of the AK-47 was at least with SF.

Well a 12 man SF team operating far behind enemy lines, relying upon remaining undetected for their survival is vastly different than an Infantryman using a discarded enemy weapon in a conventional military action.

I can easily see an SF team choosing to use AK's over M-16's (they can use any weapon they want, unlike the average grunt) if for no other reason than M-16 gunfire where they are going is like holding up a big neon sign saying "we're right here, come kill us!". AK gunfire would introduce a degree of uncertainty as to who is doing the shooting but even still they'd rather not have to use their weapons at all.

An Infantry company on the other hand has 150-200 troops spread out over a much larger area and is fighting a completely different type of war. There's a lot more noise and confusion and what they call the "fog of war". In that situation I think there's a lot bigger chance of receiving friendly fire if one uses an enemy weapon.