The Scottish Independence thread - Yay or Nay?

[MGR1]

Alright Steve - my mistake! No need for the remark though - it's a bit uncalled for.

I did try the search engine but didn't pick up on it - either I didn't put in the right search terms - or more likely I missed it when I skimmed through....

Either way, an honest error, as I did look.

Anyway, since that thread descended into farce, I'd like to try and keep this in a serious vein, if possible!

@Oberon: I quite agree - I'm 1/4 English, 1/4 Shetlander and 1/2 Scottish Mainland with relatives at literally both ends of the country (not that I've any intention of setting foot in Pompey just now - might not be safe.....) and consider myself both Scottish and British co-equally.

As for Culloden, if anyone actually looked at the history instead of the jingoism, they'll see that it was actually Scots vs English and Scots. 1745 was a civil war of sorts!

Whats got my thought processes going is that my cousins in Portsmouth didn't have a clue who Alec Salmond was when he appeared on telly (though they do now) and had very little interest in what happened up north.

That and various comments I've heard and seen make me wonder if England's really all that bothered?

Mike.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by MGR1

Alright Steve - my mistake! No need for the remark though - it's a bit uncalled for.

Then I apologize. I was thinking I should post something other than just a link. My bad.

I did try the search engine but didn't pick up on it - either I didn't put in the right search terms - or more likely I missed it when I skimmed through....

Either way, an honest error, as I did look.

Then I'm even more at fault. I'm probably jaded due to seeing so many people not use it. I will leave my comment in place, though, as if I remove it then your reply and this one will make no sense.

Anyway, since that thread descended into farce, I'd like to try and keep this in a serious vein, if possible!

Probably a good idea. I'll try to help you in that goal, if I can.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by MGR1

@Oberon: I quite agree - I'm 1/4 English, 1/4 Shetlander and 1/2 Scottish Mainland with relatives at literally both ends of the country (not that I've any intention of setting foot in Pompey just now - might not be safe.....) and consider myself both Scottish and British co-equally.

As for Culloden, if anyone actually looked at the history instead of the jingoism, they'll see that it was actually Scots vs English and Scots. 1745 was a civil war of sorts!

Whats got my thought processes going is that my cousins in Portsmouth didn't have a clue who Alec Salmond was when he appeared on telly (though they do now) and had very little interest in what happened up north.

That and various comments I've heard and seen make me wonder if England's really all that bothered?

Mike.

I imagine as we get nearer September the media will bring up the referendum more and more so people down south will get more acustomed to seeing Alec giving it his all. I think though that if Scotland really did vote in favour that it would shock most people, although many of them would probably think it's a seperate country anyway but that's the Celebrity Big Brother generation for you. Certainly though aside from the odd snippet in the news, usually when Alec has put forward a new claim that Scotland will be better independent, the pending referendum doesn't take up much time in the southern media, although I expect that to change as the year goes on.
It was rather a mess back then, wasn't it? Between that and the Highland Clearances later on, it's understandable why many Scots hold a grudge against Westminster, and there's certainly more than enough evidence to point out a North-South divide in the country.
It's quite funny though, really, because I did a bit of digging into my ancestry last year, and found that even on the English side of the family, the 'Clack's originated from Scotland back in the 1700s (probably originally from Clackmannanshire) so all roads lead to the north it would seem.

[Jimbuna]

I'm for the union but should the vote go for leaving, then Scotland need to take with them their share of the national debt, sort out their own currency and defence.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Personally the majority of me would like the union to remain, any vote will be unfair - why should only the Scots get a vote that affects England too, and why should a devolved government still have a voice in Westminster? The minority me thinks those that want independence should get it but rely not one iota on the rest of us.

This goes for Wales and Ulster too. And Kernow!

[Dread Knot]

This question does seem to be an emotional one.

However, the impression I get from relatives living abroad is that most Scots are ambivalent about their emotional loyalty. Given a clear case of wearing a blue shirt or a white one, it's quite clear who they support, but when it comes to politics, finances, and nationality, the waters are far murkier.
I'm slowly - and somewhat to my surprise- being forced to conclude that most Scots are emotionally far more British than they will admit.

[STEED]

I couldn't give a rats arse.

[Aktungbby]

It will be voted down; Even the HRM is a Scot on her late beloved mom's side, a MacClean of the Ilk of Mull, if I'm not mistaken, as is my wife. I'm a Kincaid, sub clan of the Glasgow(murderous cutthroats n' reivers) area myself and Scots-Irish-German as is half of the American nation and most of Appalachia. I suspect very strongly that there be insufficient "'wang' under the kilt"(old drinking song lyric) to carry the motion.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I'm for the union but should the vote go for leaving, then Scotland need to take with them their share of the national debt, sort out their own currency and defence.

m'k, if England then pays back what it did to Scotland before and during the Empire days .. thinking of de-foresting, driving away people and let herds of sheep eat anything that tries to grow - english sheep, of course. Scotland was a wasteland, after that.
If you take all that into the calculation i bet there will still be some debts, but England would have to pay them

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

m'k, if England then pays back what it did to Scotland before and during the Empire days .. thinking of de-foresting, driving away people and let herds of sheep eat anything that tries to grow - english sheep, of course. Scotland was a wasteland, after that.
If you take all that into the calculation i bet there will still be some debts, but England would have to pay them

I think you need to research 'The Barnett Formula'

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I think you need to research 'The Barnett Formula'

Thanks, this was interesting !

Although i guess the benefits from plundering Scotland before and during the Empire went into a (very) few hands, while the current financing as usually is being done by the taxpayers ..



I do not really see a separated Scotland though, and i do also not believe it is finances only that makes them stay ..

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Thanks, this was interesting !

Although i guess the benefits from plundering Scotland before and during the Empire went into a (very) few hands, while the current financing as usually is being done by the taxpayers ..



I do not really see a separated Scotland though, and i do also not believe it is finances only that makes them stay ..

The Union is strongest in every context of the word until it is broken up and weakened both economically, fiscally and in stature in the eyes of the world.