Is that a Pocket Shotgun in your Pants or are you just happy to see me?

Feuer Frei! · 12-22-13, 09:43 AM

A .410 wouldn't be the first choice for self-defense.

This thing is more a novelty weapon than anything else.

Sure, it's better than nothing, 410 ammo was designed for hunting, not self-defense.

Ammo designed for long barrels but used in short barrels doesn't really gel.

I hazard a guess but this particular model has shallow rifling? If so, they are not true smoothbores, ie the shots spread out too much. Not really what you want in greater ranges.

Gimmick gun, good for a novice.

Total energy of a loadout is important, as you gun nuts know of course.

The only advantage of this thing would be the low recoil.

Edit: As Ducimus points out at close range it may be ok, ie 3 yards or nearer, which is the key number for self-defense, in relation to this model.
Anything outside of that, and a guy wearing a leather jacket coming at you from a range greater than 3 yards, (keeping in mind the scattered shot pattern) getting hit by 6 pellets, rather than 9 (from a 12-gauge) may still keep on coming. May is the word i stress, that's the issue, not a certainty.
Which then defeats the purpose o self-defense. You don't want the doubt of something that MAY stop an attacker.
A 12 or 20-gauge on the other hand? Well....

Ducimus · 12-22-13, 09:48 AM

Well its not my first choice either, but as any firearms enthusiast will tell you, some guns work well for some people for varying reasons, and some don't.

Feuer Frei! · 12-22-13, 09:55 AM

Haha yea, maybe if you have squirrels or rabbits invading your appartment.
Fair point.

Ducimus · 12-22-13, 10:01 AM

Well, let me ask you this, what would you give someone to defend themselves with who was elderly, had frail limbs, poor eye sight, wears simple clothing, extremely recoil sensitive, and didn't have access to a shooting range to become proficient with the manual of arms for a standard semiauto handgun?

See what I mean? We are all different, with different considerations.

Sailor Steve · 12-22-13, 10:46 AM

They call it a derringer, and that's what it is. Ever since Henry Deringer created the first muzzle-loading pocket pistol the misspelled "derringer" has been a generic name for a single-or-two-shot personal weapon, small enough to be carried in a jacket or pants pocket and only for last-ditch use. They have always been popular and likely always will be.

Dismiss it all you like. If you need one it's better to have it than not.

Platapus · 12-22-13, 11:49 AM

I would not call a .410 a "shotgun".

I can buy multi-projectile rounds for my 9mm, but that does not make it a shotgun either.

Aktungbby · 12-22-13, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I would not call a .410 a "shotgun".

In California you'd be wrong; my Derringer is illegal now (as are my .30 cal 30 round M1 carbine mags) as it is a shotgun under 18 " length. There is a solution: the replica Lemat with a center spindle shotgun is considered a blackpowder replica and is exempt under the law which with 9 .44 rounds makes it a suitably nasty solution to the niceties of our over-regulated police-state violations of our right to arm bears...!?

August · 12-22-13, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

410 ammo was designed for hunting, not self-defense.

These 410's are indeed designed for self-defense.

Quote:

Delivering effective shot patterns that place all projectiles on a man-sized target at seven yards, the Critical Defense® 410 features a unique Triple Defense™ projectile stack consisting of two 35 caliber round balls topped with one non-jacketed FTX® slug. Unique to the Critical Defense 410, the 41 caliber FTX® slug actually engages the gun's rifling, and contacts the target nose-on, enabling the patented Hornady Flex Tip® technology to assist in expansion for greatly enhanced terminal performance. Each 35 caliber round ball is made of high antimony, cold swaged lead to resist deformation and provide excellent penetration. The 410 Critical Defense is loaded to 750 fps at the muzzle with 294 ft lbs of energy.

http://www.hornady.com/store/410-Critical-Defense-Ammo/

Aktungbby · 12-22-13, 04:09 PM

^

Jimbuna · 12-22-13, 04:50 PM

Translation required

gi_dan2987 · 12-22-13, 05:09 PM

Some guns are meant to kill animals, other guns are meant to kill people. But some guns are just meant to kill your wallet and serve no other purpose. Source: An avid sportsman, gun owner, and military veteran.

Aktungbby · 12-22-13, 06:48 PM

Well jes' don't confuse yer white-tail deer rifle with yer .375 H&H Browning A-bolt moose gun

August · 12-22-13, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Translation required

With the right ammo it's not as harmless as some are making it out to be.

d@rk51d3 · 12-23-13, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

With the right ammo it's not as harmless as some are making it out to be.

Alot of people trash talk the 410............ maybe those lacking the skill to use one properly.

Feuer Frei! · 12-23-13, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d@rk51d3

Alot of people trash talk the 410............ maybe those lacking the skill to use one properly.

You're not referring to this model posted in the thread are you?

12-22-13, 09:43 AM	#1
Feuer Frei! Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Valhalla Posts: 5,295 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 17	A .410 wouldn't be the first choice for self-defense. This thing is more a novelty weapon than anything else. Sure, it's better than nothing, 410 ammo was designed for hunting, not self-defense. Ammo designed for long barrels but used in short barrels doesn't really gel. I hazard a guess but this particular model has shallow rifling? If so, they are not true smoothbores, ie the shots spread out too much. Not really what you want in greater ranges. Gimmick gun, good for a novice. Total energy of a loadout is important, as you gun nuts know of course. The only advantage of this thing would be the low recoil. Edit: As Ducimus points out at close range it may be ok, ie 3 yards or nearer, which is the key number for self-defense, in relation to this model. Anything outside of that, and a guy wearing a leather jacket coming at you from a range greater than 3 yards, (keeping in mind the scattered shot pattern) getting hit by 6 pellets, rather than 9 (from a 12-gauge) may still keep on coming. May is the word i stress, that's the issue, not a certainty. Which then defeats the purpose o self-defense. You don't want the doubt of something that MAY stop an attacker. A 12 or 20-gauge on the other hand? Well.... __________________ "History is the lies that the victors agree on"- Napoleon LINK TO MY SH 3 MODS

12-22-13, 09:55 AM	#3
Feuer Frei! Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Valhalla Posts: 5,295 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 17	Haha yea, maybe if you have squirrels or rabbits invading your appartment. Fair point. __________________ "History is the lies that the victors agree on"- Napoleon LINK TO MY SH 3 MODS

12-22-13, 10:46 AM	#5
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	They call it a derringer, and that's what it is. Ever since Henry Deringer created the first muzzle-loading pocket pistol the misspelled "derringer" has been a generic name for a single-or-two-shot personal weapon, small enough to be carried in a jacket or pants pocket and only for last-ditch use. They have always been popular and likely always will be. Dismiss it all you like. If you need one it's better to have it than not. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-22-13, 11:49 AM	#6
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,391 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I would not call a .410 a "shotgun". I can buy multi-projectile rounds for my 9mm, but that does not make it a shotgun either. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

12-22-13, 04:09 PM	#9
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,058 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	^ Last edited by Aktungbby; 12-28-13 at 12:22 AM.

12-22-13, 09:48 AM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Well its not my first choice either, but as any firearms enthusiast will tell you, some guns work well for some people for varying reasons, and some don't.

12-22-13, 10:01 AM	#4
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Well, let me ask you this, what would you give someone to defend themselves with who was elderly, had frail limbs, poor eye sight, wears simple clothing, extremely recoil sensitive, and didn't have access to a shooting range to become proficient with the manual of arms for a standard semiauto handgun? See what I mean? We are all different, with different considerations.

12-22-13, 04:50 PM	#10
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,818 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Translation required __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

12-22-13, 05:09 PM	#11
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Some guns are meant to kill animals, other guns are meant to kill people. But some guns are just meant to kill your wallet and serve no other purpose. Source: An avid sportsman, gun owner, and military veteran.

12-22-13, 06:48 PM	#12
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,058 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Well jes' don't confuse yer white-tail deer rifle with yer .375 H&H Browning A-bolt moose gun __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!! Last edited by Aktungbby; 12-28-13 at 12:23 AM.