Saab wins $4.5bn Brazil fighter jet contract

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I know because I served in the USAF in fighter squadrons in the maintenance squadron.I was aerospace ground equipment I worked on the flight line everyday when one trains we all train so I know what the hours are I sat watched them come and go I knew the pilots personally.

Vietnam is an unfair comparison to the whole at that time period fighter pilots where banned from even practicing and it showed early on but we learned.The US Navy started the SFTI program in 1968 and during the air actions in 1971 and 72 the kill ratio completely turned around.The USAF was little slower but also made many changes and started Red Flag in the mid 70's.I can really go on extensively but I will not because the information that proves me correct is easy to find.

Post Vietnam USAF and US Navy have won 99% of air to air engagements and we have suffered no losses a few Serb jets manged to break contact but they dared not stay and fight actually the hallmark of a clever pilot not split when you know you will loose so I fail to see what makes you think that US military air combat performance has been poor we learned the lessons of Vietnam and the mistakes you seem to think have been a problem since then.
In Korea we performed very well the only dip was during the arrival of the MiG-15 which went away once the F-86 arrived and the MiG-15 mostly flew intercept missions so most of their kills where B-29s and other attack aircraft and bombers not fighter sweeps unlike the F-86.

the amount and level of Russian military pilot training is readily available just do some research.As to the technology perhaps my sarcasm with some of what I said was missed which I thought was a bit obvious.Of course in the end likely hood that a fully equipped and kitted out Russian aircraft and a fully kitted out US or Western European designed engaging in combat is pretty unlikely.

P.S. why the bolding of the word female? What is that supposed to mean? My statement of kissing a woman's butt was poking fun at Vanjasts statement that US troops would kiss the butt(show respect to) of a female A-10 pilot as if they normally have no respect when it comes to the combat potential of a female maybe she has Sassanian esprit de corps in her that is where the term "hid behind their women's skirts" comes from the "skirt" of a female Sassanian warrior.

What ever I should have known better than to post my thoughts on military aviation I recon being directly involved in for 12 years means that I know nothing.

Whilst agreeing with the vast majority of the above and readily admitting I am in no way an expert on military aviation...allow me to make one 'tongue in cheek' observation.

It was the inclusion of the Buccaneer bomber at Red Flag (just so happens to be one of my favourite aircraft) that introduced the US into the reality of what a serious threat ultra low level attack aircraft could pose.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Whilst agreeing with the vast majority of the above and readily admitting I am in no way an expert on military aviation...allow me to make one 'tongue in cheek' observation.

It was the inclusion of the Buccaneer bomber at Red Flag (just so happens to be one of my favourite aircraft) that introduced the US into the reality of what a serious threat ultra low level attack aircraft could pose.

Well you also have what the "brass" thinks and what the people who are doing the real thinking think.As an example once all the fancy missiles came along the DoD became one sighted and put too much faith into it.as a result they banned (yes) most forms of simulated dog fighting.Many Navy,USMC and USAF felt other wise and would still practice simulated dogfights as bets they could.

Of course doing so would get those involved in trouble so they had come to this banned training during other planned flights.At some point during the flight "bad weather" often forced them to fly a longer route.Actually for that extra time they simulating air to air combat.

I sometimes forget that non-military do not know how things work on the inside sometimes.As my old Senior NCO loved to say "you have to know the book and you have to know when to throw the book out the ........ door."

The funny thing about the Buccaneer is that SAC had started making the B-52 fly map-of-the-earth back in 1962(and the B-1B got that role inspired by the Buccaneer) so they knew this concept to be some what effective against the Soviets why such should the Buccaneer be such a shock? Of course that was a shock to the guys who write the book not the guys doing the actual thinking.

No organization is perfect in its thinking and conceptual processes someone can come up with a better idea that you did not.What is more important is how when exposed to something you learn from it.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Well you also have what the "brass" thinks and what the people who are doing the real thinking think.As an example once all the fancy missiles came along the DoD became one sighted and put too much faith into it.as a result they banned (yes) most forms of simulated dog fighting.Many Navy,USMC and USAF felt other wise and would still practice simulated dogfights as bets they could.

Of course doing so would get those involved in trouble so they had come to this banned training during other planned flights.At some point during the flight "bad weather" often forced them to fly a longer route.Actually for that extra time they simulating air to air combat.

I sometimes forget that non-military do not know how things work on the inside sometimes.As my old Senior NCO loved to say "you have to know the book and you have to know when to throw the book out the ........ door."

The funny thing about the Buccaneer is that SAC had started making the B-52 fly map-of-the-earth back in 1962(and the B-1B got that role inspired by the Buccaneer) so they knew this concept to be some what effective against the Soviets why such should the Buccaneer be such a shock? Of course that was a shock to the guys who write the book not the guys doing the actual thinking.

No organization is perfect in its thinking and conceptual processes someone can come up with a better idea that you did not.What is more important is how when exposed to something you learn from it.

I was shocked some time ago to learn the tactics Buccaneers were initially trained to use should an interceptor manage to get on their tail at very low level.

As a last resort they were expected to drop a 500lb bomb thus 'hopefully' causing the interceptor fatal damage from the blast.

In later years they were of course kitted out with Sidewinder (usually just the one though).