Kind of ironic this happened...

Originally Posted by kranz

I'm just wondering whether Tribesman keeps a record of us all here or only of particular users...

Unfortunately I am cursed with a good(or should that be terrible)memory, if I read anything it means that I have read it and can recall it.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Bubbles, do not misrepresent what I have said.
I have made no comment at all about you being angry. Your anger is perfectly understandable. Or as I put it earlier to Father Goose about the circumstances....
upset is natural.

My comments focus entirely on what you claim was your right at that time, and what in reality is really your right at that time(though of course your State does point out that it is a privilege not a right).

Oh and one more thing I think I should point out as you seem completely unaware of how the industry works.

Insurance is big money business. When that assessor/adjuster sends the check the claims process isn't complete.
It is at that point or even weeks later the file will land on the desk of someone like my wife, its amazing how many "straightforward" no fault payouts they flag up on simple things like disclosure.

Reviewed her policy(by the way, she is already a lawyer) and I was well within rights to be operating her vehicle as I suspected but I get your point and in some cases may be applicable.I think your dislike for me and mine for you interfere with our discussions at times.

Driving is a privilege sure, but I have that privilege as I have a valid driver's license and was operating, with permission my girlfriend's vehicle which was insured and was in no way , shape, or form excluded from her policy.I have basic knowledge, probably what most people have who do not work or deal with the "industry" on a daily basis, it's a corrupt one for sure.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Ah, the centuries long struggle of the white male against the racism and prejudice against him in the world continues.

Help, help, you're being repressed!

The past does not matter, any person who owned a slave etc is dead.Currently, the only truly oppressed ethnicity in the US is the white male, particularly the middle to upper middle income male.Due to the tough economy, law school has been incredibly difficult for my parents and I to pay for.Nearly anything aside from loans(which are difficult to get for a while male not from the ghetto) , which we have tried to avoid so am not indebted to the federal government for most of my life but sadly did have to apply for some, is there to help non white students and those from "poor" backgrounds. I have one term left and honestly, not sure how are going to pay for it and January is right around the corner.

The incident I mentioned, where the illegal alien trash ran into us and I had to remove his keys so he could leave the scene, if he had become violent or had even been able to(was so heavily intoxicated) and I had been compelled to use force, in particular my pistol I had on me, not telling what kind of trumped up charges I could have been hit with.Some arbitrary hate crime crap from the feds etc, fortunately it did not go that route but still, non whites do not live with that fear.There have been cases in media where it was black on white crime, with blacks yelling racial terms and should have been charged with hate crimes, does not happen but if reversed, you bet they would be nailed with a hate crime.

Affirmative Action is still the law, the most racist laws we have.This insults many minorities and should every one as it says even if you are not quite as good as the white guy, you get a leg up because you are black.Want real equality? Everything must be on MERIT, not something like race, class etc.

Racism is wrong, no matter who it is directed at.

[Sailor Steve]

^ ^ ^

Good answers, especially the first one. Olive branches are always welcome.

[mookiemookie]

The past does not matter

Bull. The past contains decades of discrimination of minorities. If your family has been discriminated against in hiring, salary, and housing for decades, you are not going to have as much wealth and sometimes education as those who did not have to deal with such discrimination.

This puts it as succinctly as anything I'd care to type

[CaptainHaplo]

Mookie - that is ridiculous.

Does racism happen? Sure it does. But the so called "cartoon" you post assumes that every "white" has stood upon the back of a chained "black" to get "above" them.

Now - I have never owned a slave, nor have I utilized racial repression as a way to get ahead of others. So I have no culpability or responsibility for it.

Have you owned a slave? Or have you kept other races repressed so you could get ahead? If so, when did you write your last reparations check?

If you haven't written one yet - then why don't you lead by example. Or are you too good to live by your own highbrow moralism?

On the off chance you have a significant amount of pigmentation in your skin, don't forget about the Irish slaves - among others. Better still write that check.

Lastly - the idea that people - including myself - don't do anything to help out the "poor, downtrodden blacks" - reparations have been collected by the government for a long time and distributed to the poor - of all races. Its called welfare. And 61.2% of recipients are not Caucasian. So apparently I pay reparations - even to people that some distant 3rd cousin once removed 5 generations back didn't even enslave.....

[TarJak]

I think the point he made is valid. Even if every ancestor of yours was not directly involved in owning slaves, they cannot help but to have received benefits economically from the slavery that existed in the USA.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Mookie - that is ridiculous.

Does racism happen? Sure it does. But the so called "cartoon" you post assumes that every "white" has stood upon the back of a chained "black" to get "above" them.

Now - I have never owned a slave, nor have I utilized racial repression as a way to get ahead of others. So I have no culpability or responsibility for it.

Have you owned a slave? Or have you kept other races repressed so you could get ahead? If so, when did you write your last reparations check?

If you haven't written one yet - then why don't you lead by example. Or are you too good to live by your own highbrow moralism?

On the off chance you have a significant amount of pigmentation in your skin, don't forget about the Irish slaves - among others. Better still write that check.

Lastly - the idea that people - including myself - don't do anything to help out the "poor, downtrodden blacks" - reparations have been collected by the government for a long time and distributed to the poor - of all races. Its called welfare. And 61.2% of recipients are not Caucasian. So apparently I pay reparations - even to people that some distant 3rd cousin once removed 5 generations back didn't even enslave.....

I am afraid that post is absolutely ridiculous.
While I am certain that it can be backed by "facts" from numerous white supremacist groups, I am of the opinion that that just illustrates how ridiculous the post is.

I do like the "idea" that welfare is reparation for things like slavery, segregation and institutionalised racism though, that is a real gem.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by TarJak

I think the point he made is valid. Even if every ancestor of yours was not directly involved in owning slaves, they cannot help but to have received benefits economically from the slavery that existed in the USA.

Tarjak - while that may be the case - at what point does the responsibility end? Seriously. Consider this. Maybe your great grandfather shot someone and killed them. So should you suffer the death penalty or imprisonment for that? How is it appropriate that you are defined as a murderer and have a duty to "pay" for the crime of your ancestor? Maybe it wasn't your ancestor - maybe it was your ancestor's neighbor that did it - but your ancestor "allowed it" (because of the concept of a responsible society) so they are culpable anyway.

Slavery is - in our society - a crime. I am glad it is. At no time have I ever said that slavery was "good". The point that you call valid would be if I - or others - were the ones who owned slaves. We would owe them because of it. But I wouldn't have owned slaves anyway - so the idea that I am somehow responsible to "right the wrongs" of other generations societal actions is ridiculous.

If repression of blacks was wrong - then repression of whites to let minorities "get ahead" is just as wrong. Both are racism. An equal playing field is what is right.

Yes - things like the education system fail minorities. Yet the worst schools often get the most money. Allowing parents the right to send their kids (regardless of race) to successful schools would close the education gap. Throwing more money at bad schools has proven to not do so.

[Bubblehead1980]

I really wish I had time to type out the response I would like right now but I do not.The "chip on your shoulder" view many non whites in this country have and those who support them with their liberal white guilt, just beyond reasonable thinking.I assure you my family and I have no benefits from slavery, no wealth has been passed down for generations, nor has it for most people.Really, if anything, we are suffering due to the exploitation of emotions attached that ugly chapter in our history by politicians and a segment of the population to achieve political power via votes.Unfortunately, in the hyper emotional world of the 1960's, they pushed things to where laws were passed that LEGALLY discriminates against white people.Reverse Racism in action and sadly it is still the law.Hopefully, Supreme Court will overturn AA at some point in near future.Bottom line, we should all be treated equally, can't change the past, so people need to let go and allow everyone to be judged on their merits, the content of their character, not the color of their skin and past actions of their ancestors.

The struggle of racial equality for non whites in America was once very real and at times, it still is.However, institutionalized racism towards non whites is gone, it is illegal.Individual cases of racism will always happen.With 312+ million people in a population which is so diverse, it will happen on all sides, nothing can do about it but make sure institutional racism, real racism does not exist.Now, that the race card is for most part played out, notice the new "victim" struggle is for LGBT "community" , someone always has to have a "victim" to exploit and sadly, most of our brain dead population for fall for it when the real issues of our time are economic.Government causing a stagnant economy, taxing like crazy, and 7(officially) percent unemployed but in reality it's about 16%.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Tarjak - while that may be the case - at what point does the responsibility end? Seriously. Consider this. Maybe your great grandfather shot someone and killed them. So should you suffer the death penalty or imprisonment for that? How is it appropriate that you are defined as a murderer and have a duty to "pay" for the crime of your ancestor? Maybe it wasn't your ancestor - maybe it was your ancestor's neighbor that did it - but your ancestor "allowed it" (because of the concept of a responsible society) so they are culpable anyway.

Slavery is - in our society - a crime. I am glad it is. At no time have I ever said that slavery was "good". The point that you call valid would be if I - or others - were the ones who owned slaves. We would owe them because of it. But I wouldn't have owned slaves anyway - so the idea that I am somehow responsible to "right the wrongs" of other generations societal actions is ridiculous.

If repression of blacks was wrong - then repression of whites to let minorities "get ahead" is just as wrong. Both are racism. An equal playing field is what is right.

Yes - things like the education system fail minorities. Yet the worst schools often get the most money. Allowing parents the right to send their kids (regardless of race) to successful schools would close the education gap. Throwing more money at bad schools has proven to not do so.

My read of his point was that it's not about responsibility or when it ends. It was simply that the playing field is not an even one because of past practices. This is what you are complaining about whilst being in an advantageous position.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by TarJak

My read of his point was that it's not about responsibility or when it ends. It was simply that the playing field is not an even one because of past practices. This is what you are complaining about whilst being in an advantageous position.

Your right - it is not even. Now minorities get a "boost up" when others do not. What your basically saying is that "uneven" is the correct stance. I disagree. If holding down one subset of people was wrong before - then its wrong now.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

How do you figure that I am somehow in an "advantageous position"?

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Your right - it is not even. Now minorities get a "boost up" when others do not. What your basically saying is that "uneven" is the correct stance. I disagree. If holding down one subset of people was wrong before - then its wrong now.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

How do you figure that I am somehow in an "advantageous position"?

Well that is simple to answer.
Since welfare is apparently reparations for slavery segregation and institutionalised racism, if you ever claim welfare you get it without having all that crap behind you, you lucky whitey, oh the joys of pale pigmentation, all the advantageous "free" stuff without the persecution.

[Sailor Steve]

Okay, tone back the rhetoric, please.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Well that is simple to answer.
Since welfare is apparently reparations for slavery segregation and institutionalised racism, if you ever claim welfare you get it without having all that crap behind you, you lucky whitey, oh the joys of pale pigmentation, all the advantageous "free" stuff without the persecution.

QED