Geesh...Religion..

Skybird · 12-06-13, 07:22 PM

From your telling your father did the only right thing to do, me thinks. Funerals are for the living, not for the dead. When the living start politics about funerals, they show they are about power, and nothing else. Show them the door then, else they rape anyone else who maybe already struggles anyway with trying to find his personal way to accept the loss and cope with the sadness.

Even an anti-religious guy like me would not go to other people's funerals and tell them what to do and what not.

Armistead · 12-06-13, 07:34 PM

Well, tough call for me, if a person has a certain faith and ask to have a funeral in that faith, you deal with it and move on. I've basically agnostic, but I've been to funerals of many faiths, most goes in and out my ear....

Anyway, I'm glad the father gave and let the sisters do it.....The JW's were just too demanding to leave the family out of the service.

Wolferz · 12-06-13, 07:50 PM

Sounds like some folks down your way need to put a little love in their hearts.

God doesn't quibble about such things nor should those who profess to be his servants.

Again, condolences on the loss.

mapuc · 12-06-13, 08:00 PM

condolences on the loss, my friend

I'm an artiest, nevertheless I would without no doubt fulfill the person I love last will on how he or she want his or her funeral.

If the person I love want, let say, a Celtic druid funeral, I will do everything I can to make it so.

I'm very well known to JW. Have relatives and friends that are deeply involved in their church, I almost know how they think.

Markus

Oberon · 12-06-13, 07:55 PM

JW's can be a particular group at times, some nice people in the group, but as a collective, well I guess that's the politics of the organisation of the group coming through. Rest assured though, that your Mother is out of all the earthly worries and politics, and she'll know what took place and why things happened as they did. As Skybird put it, funerals are for the living, not the dead.
My Grandfather was a spiritually curious person, he met with various groups, even scientologists but at the end of the day he was more of an agnostic than a devout believer in any one religion. His funeral had the whole preacher spiel, going on about this and that, I don't know precisely why it was a religious funeral, it was organised by my father and uncle, so I defer to them, but all through the ceremony, I could just see him leaning on the coffin, glasses perched on his forehead, pint glass mug of beer in one hand just shaking his head and chuckling at all the flowery descriptions that the vicar was giving, and that made me smile....and that, I think, is how he would have wanted it to be.

Sorry, if I rambled on a bit there, at the end of the day though, I would like to believe that when we die we gain an understanding of people that we could never have in this life, and we hold no grudges or misunderstandings against those we leave behind, even if they can't do the things we wanted them to do for what we left behind, which is at the end of the day, an empty shell. That's what I like to believe anyway, makes it a little easier to get by.

u crank · 12-06-13, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

...at the end of the day though, I would like to believe that when we die we gain an understanding of people that we could never have in this life, and we hold no grudges or misunderstandings against those we leave behind, even if they can't do the things we wanted them to do for what we left behind, which is at the end of the day, an empty shell. That's what I like to believe anyway, makes it a little easier to get by.

Very well said, Sir.

CaptainHaplo · 12-06-13, 08:12 PM

Having presided over a few of these and thus having had to deal with the "politics" of differing family desires, let me offer a suggestion if possible..

It is something very common around here. 2 services. One at either the church or funeral home chapel, the other graveside. If everyone is ok with 2 services - then the JW's can have one and the family can have one. The deceased's wishes are honored, and the family has a service that they can celebrate the life and memory of the deceased as well.

One other option is multiple services "indoors" as well.

Buddahaid · 12-06-13, 08:43 PM

I dearly hope this turns out well and I'm sorry for your loss. That's all I'll say as the rest would be unprintable.

Sailor Steve · 12-06-13, 09:30 PM

It sounds to me like everybody is being selfish and demanding and everybody is wrong. I think Haplo has come up with the best compromise.

Aktungbby · 12-06-13, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Having presided over a few of these and thus having had to deal with the "politics" of differing family desires, let me offer a suggestion if possible..

It is something very common around here. 2 services. One at either the church or funeral home chapel, the other graveside. If everyone is ok with 2 services - then the JW's can have one and the family can have one. The deceased's wishes are honored, and the family has a service that they can celebrate the life and memory of the deceased as wellOne other option is multiple services "indoors" as well.

Ditto that: with Jewish, Catholic, Methodist, and one aunt that just donated her corpus non delecti to science, in my family; and 93 year old mom about to pass over, go with the formal expressed wishes of the deceased first(JW) and a multi-deistic graveside service for the family(well catered of of course!) We do fabu Irish wakes and I'm tempted to throw one for myself so I can enjoy my own party. As with Skybird: funerals are for the living; so do both and cover all bases! As with my PM: blessings and condolences.

Buddahaid · 12-06-13, 10:40 PM

A most rational approach from cooler heads than mine.

It's so high ya can't get over it, but it's not so wide ya can't get around it.

Armistead · 12-06-13, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Having presided over a few of these and thus having had to deal with the "politics" of differing family desires, let me offer a suggestion if possible..

It is something very common around here. 2 services. One at either the church or funeral home chapel, the other graveside. If everyone is ok with 2 services - then the JW's can have one and the family can have one. The deceased's wishes are honored, and the family has a service that they can celebrate the life and memory of the deceased as well.

One other option is multiple services "indoors" as well.

My wife actually floated that idea and it almost worked. I think the oldest sister that is atheist dealt with a harder JW church, because the grandfather still ran it, by the time my wife was around 8 he died. The older sister states how badly the church treated her as a teen. She is not only an atheist, but truly hates any and all religion and faith. Anyway, my wife got the JW church to agree to do a small service for her mom next church, when her sister found out, she called the JW pastor and said she would be there and it had to be so and so. Anyway, the pastor told her they simply wouldn't hold any service. My wife called him and he did say that they would honor her in time and he would see the father next week and talk to him.

Anyway, the father too old and weak to fight the two sisters that are bound to have it their way and put on a big show for everyone. Lets hope it all runs smoothly for his sake....

Father Goose · 12-06-13, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Anyway, the father too old and weak to fight the two sisters that are bound to have it their way and put on a big show for everyone. Lets hope it all runs smoothly for his sake....

Is all this taking place in a ice storm?

nikimcbee · 12-06-13, 08:10 PM

Let's us the wisdom of Solomon. I think you should go on vacation that weekend and totally steer clear of the family minefield.

If you're totally trapped in it, I wouldn't let the JW push you around, but that is just me.

I re-read your original post, and I wish you the best of luck. Sorry about your loss. Too many faiths involved for me.

12-06-13, 07:22 PM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,701 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	From your telling your father did the only right thing to do, me thinks. Funerals are for the living, not for the dead. When the living start politics about funerals, they show they are about power, and nothing else. Show them the door then, else they rape anyone else who maybe already struggles anyway with trying to find his personal way to accept the loss and cope with the sadness. Even an anti-religious guy like me would not go to other people's funerals and tell them what to do and what not. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-06-13, 07:34 PM	#2
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Well, tough call for me, if a person has a certain faith and ask to have a funeral in that faith, you deal with it and move on. I've basically agnostic, but I've been to funerals of many faiths, most goes in and out my ear.... Anyway, I'm glad the father gave and let the sisters do it.....The JW's were just too demanding to leave the family out of the service. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

12-06-13, 07:50 PM	#3
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Sounds like some folks down your way need to put a little love in their hearts. God doesn't quibble about such things nor should those who profess to be his servants. Again, condolences on the loss. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

12-06-13, 08:12 PM	#7
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Having presided over a few of these and thus having had to deal with the "politics" of differing family desires, let me offer a suggestion if possible.. It is something very common around here. 2 services. One at either the church or funeral home chapel, the other graveside. If everyone is ok with 2 services - then the JW's can have one and the family can have one. The deceased's wishes are honored, and the family has a service that they can celebrate the life and memory of the deceased as well. One other option is multiple services "indoors" as well. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

12-06-13, 08:43 PM	#8
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,332 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	I dearly hope this turns out well and I'm sorry for your loss. That's all I'll say as the rest would be unprintable. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

12-06-13, 08:00 PM	#4
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,548 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	condolences on the loss, my friend I'm an artiest, nevertheless I would without no doubt fulfill the person I love last will on how he or she want his or her funeral. If the person I love want, let say, a Celtic druid funeral, I will do everything I can to make it so. I'm very well known to JW. Have relatives and friends that are deeply involved in their church, I almost know how they think. Markus

12-06-13, 07:55 PM	#5
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	JW's can be a particular group at times, some nice people in the group, but as a collective, well I guess that's the politics of the organisation of the group coming through. Rest assured though, that your Mother is out of all the earthly worries and politics, and she'll know what took place and why things happened as they did. As Skybird put it, funerals are for the living, not the dead. My Grandfather was a spiritually curious person, he met with various groups, even scientologists but at the end of the day he was more of an agnostic than a devout believer in any one religion. His funeral had the whole preacher spiel, going on about this and that, I don't know precisely why it was a religious funeral, it was organised by my father and uncle, so I defer to them, but all through the ceremony, I could just see him leaning on the coffin, glasses perched on his forehead, pint glass mug of beer in one hand just shaking his head and chuckling at all the flowery descriptions that the vicar was giving, and that made me smile....and that, I think, is how he would have wanted it to be. Sorry, if I rambled on a bit there, at the end of the day though, I would like to believe that when we die we gain an understanding of people that we could never have in this life, and we hold no grudges or misunderstandings against those we leave behind, even if they can't do the things we wanted them to do for what we left behind, which is at the end of the day, an empty shell. That's what I like to believe anyway, makes it a little easier to get by.

12-06-13, 09:30 PM	#9
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	It sounds to me like everybody is being selfish and demanding and everybody is wrong. I think Haplo has come up with the best compromise. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-06-13, 10:40 PM	#11
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,332 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	A most rational approach from cooler heads than mine. It's so high ya can't get over it, but it's not so wide ya can't get around it. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

12-06-13, 08:10 PM	#14
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Let's us the wisdom of Solomon. I think you should go on vacation that weekend and totally steer clear of the family minefield. If you're totally trapped in it, I wouldn't let the JW push you around, but that is just me. I re-read your original post, and I wish you the best of luck. Sorry about your loss. Too many faiths involved for me. __________________