Delivery of 400th Eurofighter

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Why the problems with the Eurofighter Sky? I'm not aware of the RAF having any problems.

I do not know for sure, but it could be bad administration and incompetent project handling, which is an issue the ministry of defence is notoriously plagued by. The defence ministry is not popular amongst politicians to lead, it is seen as a career killer and often gets called the "ejection seat". New leaders fight uphill battles against the established bureaucracy and lobbyists. It seems that whenever they print something about how problems with defence could be explained, they unavoidably sooner or later mention mismanagement and bureaucracy standing in the way.

If you want to damage and destroy something that is good - leave it to political regulation and bureaucratic administration. It makes short process with anything that is constructive and basing on healthy reason.

P.S. I do not know the specific differences, but I think several nations are getting different versions of the plane. I seem to recall that the British Eurofighters are a different type than the German ones. But I am not certain. subsystems and equipment parts could be different, too.

[Jimbuna]

I certainly agree on your assessment of the effects politicians and bureaucrats have on matters they have no fundamental knowledge of.

The sub systems are definitely different from country to country, not too sure of differing versions/types though.

I certainly don't see any difference in personnel skills though, after all your country managed to keep the Phantom serviceable for far longer then we (the UK) did.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I certainly don't see any difference in personnel skills though, after all your country managed to keep the Phantom serviceable for far longer then we (the UK) did.

The maintenance failures regardin g the German F-104 were not about quality of the engineers and service personnel, but quantity: drunk of himself, the minister of defence back then, Franz-Josef Strauss, ordered far more planes then the Luftwaffe had enough hands to handle.

The last German Phantom was phased out this very summer, and for some reason that I do not know (there was no word on it in thg local press), I saw my last - and first since many many years! - Phantom screaming by extremely low (less than 100 meters) right in my neighbourhood in late August or early September this year, close enough to read the markings. It was so low and close that when I lift my straight arm and spread my fingers, the span between small finger and thumb equal the length of the plane as I saw it. A sound I have not heard since almost 20 years, and never from that close a distance, and it really shook the air and ground! The shadow of the plane happened to hush right over my position. Incredible! If there was a fighterplane "of my childhood", then this one, I built I think 5 plastic kits of it in different scalings. It is urban area here, why that Phantom was showing off that low, I have no clue of. Maybe it was kind of a farewell flight, a salute to somebody. I do not know. But the low altitude should not have been, I am certain.

When i studied in Osnabrück, sometime in the very early nineties I was walking in a forest there, up a hilltop, the highest elevation in the whole Teutoburgerwald/Wiehengebierge region. They had observation towers on top, and VOR OSN is located somewhere there, and military radio masts, and military pilots used the hilltop as a visual navigation mark as well. I once was on a platform on that hill, when a pair of A-10s came by - VERY low. The wings and my eyes were almost on same level, the plane passed my position maybe 60 or 70 meters away. I raised my arm and waved, expecting nothing. But to my great disbelief the plane waved back with its wings, three times! No doubt the pilot had seen me! Unique sound that beast has, btw.

[Penguin]

I have an acquaintance who flies the Eurofighter for the Luftwaffe and is very impressed by the characteristics of the plane, especially its agility and handling. He flew in quite different environments, according to him the aircraft performed very well in everyone. He flew the Tornado and Phantom before and regards the Eurofighter as a quantum leap, even in comparison with the Tornado.
Heard some about mechanical problems from him and extra inspections/planes grounded. I will ask him next week, if he wants/can share some details with the public.

Originally Posted by Skybird

They promise too much at too little money. They do it intentionally, do ghet the contract. And when they got it, the bill grows, and the probolems become apparent. But then too much already has been payed as if somebody would want to pull out.

The biggest problem is the missing accountability. We did not only see a tripling of the costs, but also some stuff where the manufacturer screwed up. Of course nobody gets held accountable for this and gets fired or fined. Neither the political decision makers, nor the contractors. From what I read, some costs raised, due to failure on the manufacturers side. The nonpublic contracts are always watertight by the company's lawyers. So of course the taxpayer has to jump in for the bill.

Remember all the populist talk about Toll Collect, where some politicians promised to get some penalty money back from the manufacturers which didn't manage to start the system in time? Mysteriously they are all very quiete now - nothing hidden in a 17000 pages contract...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Penguin

The biggest problem is the missing accountability. We did not only see a tripling of the costs, but also some stuff where the manufacturer screwed up. Of course nobody gets held accountable for this and gets fired or fined. Neither the political decision makers, nor the contractors. From what I read, some costs raised, due to failure on the manufacturers side. The nonpublic contracts are always watertight by the company's lawyers. So of course the taxpayer has to jump in for the bill.

Remember all the populist talk about Toll Collect, where some politicians promised to get some penalty money back from the manufacturers which didn't manage to start the system in time? Mysteriously they are all very quiete now - nothing hidden in a 17000 pages contract...

---> http://www.focus.de/politik/gastkolu...d_1075311.html

In case you belong to those German people not liking Sarrazin, ignore your antipathy and read it nevertheless. It's hard to disagree with him there.