[REL] Open Horizons II

[gap]

Originally Posted by gap

Working on balloons as we speak

I have the usual UV map corruption when I try reimporting the modified model

I can't go on without Targor's and/or privateer's help...

[gap]

Originally Posted by Mikemike47

NML Grif's .sim

I don't think Volodya has released his ORP Gryf / Enhanced Funnel Smoke compatiility patch yet. If needed, I can create one myself

Originally Posted by Mikemike47

OPEN HORIZONS II v2.2 - ORP Gryf and HMS Rocket no reflection patch

After the release of the ship reflection mod by TDW (has anyone actually tested it btw?), this shouldn't be needed anymore

[gap]

Originally Posted by Dida44

Exciting history in Scapa Flow, imagine how distressing was the time elapsed between the shooting and the impact of the torpedo, this time it was an eternity. Mainly the result of the first salvo of fire ...

yep, it might have done the difference between returning home and being a dead war hero. Prien was brave and lucky at the same time

We should aim to this level of suspance in game. RSD is a huge step forward towards this goal, and I am also looking forward to Rongel's update of his torpedo failure mod, compatible with TDW's patches

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

I have the usual UV map corruption when I try reimporting the modified model

I can't go on without Targor's and/or privateer's help...

I'm pretty sure that after privateer figures out the needed adjustments to the file you need before importing in order for it to work, you wont need anyone!!! ))

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

privateer,

PM sent with the package.

@gap, your pm box is full

Hi Targor, I have received your files.

My remarks:

• flipped meshes: in your PM you said: "So far none of the conversations on the axis worked". Yet, by looking at the geometry of your model, I am pretty sure that flipping your object around its x axis (only x), should solve the issue. Flipping the mine around x and z (in case this is what you have done so far) would be the same as turning it by 180 deg around its y axis, and it wouldn't obviously fix the issue. Unfortunately I can't test my theory, due to the usual UV map corruption issue.
  I am eagerly waiting for privateers' obj exporter
  
  
• "odd" corners: for better comparison, I have taken screenshots of your model rendered on Wings3d with and without diffuse and normal maps.
  
  
  
  My impression is that the worst contribution to the unpleasant effect comes from non-matching UV map seams. The normal map only contributes in minimal part (only noticeable when the diffuse texture is not mapped on the model, i.e. bottom left render). I have also noticed that the horns are integral part of the mine body, thus the flattening of the faces that they are joined to. Personally I would separate horns from the body, and I would make the body perfectly symmetrical; you can then combine body and horns in a single composite object (similar to what we have with balloon's body and fins). Advantages of this method:
  
  
  • bodie's UV mapping would be easier, without too many junctions between different map regions (ideally just one junction along one of the meridians);
    
  • bodie's geometry would be perfectly regular, with no flat faces requiring to be smoothed;
    
  • there would be an increase of one vertex per horn, but a general reduction of edges and polygons to be calculated in game;
  
  
• smoothing groups: I have noticed that you reteined them in your low poly model. I only use them while I work on a model, and then I replace them with bevelled edges, when they absolutely necessary. Reason is that S3d ignores smoothing groups, and GR2 Editor refuses importing objects containing them. Is another Wings3d-related issue, or you have found a workaround to this?

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

Hi Targor, I have received your files.

My remarks:

• flipped meshes: in your PM you said: "So far none of the conversations on the axis worked". Yet, by looking at the geometry of your model, I am pretty sure that flipping your object around its x axis (only x), should solve the issue. Flipping the mine around x and z (in case this is what you have done so far) would be the same as turning it by 180 deg around its y axis, and it wouldn't obviously fix the issue. Unfortunately I can't test my theory, due to the usual UV map corruption issue.
  I am eagerly waiting for privateers' obj exporter
  
  
• "odd" corners: for better comparison, I have taken screenshots of your model rendered on Wings3d with and without diffuse and normal maps.
  
  
  
  My impression is that the worst contribution to the unpleasant effect comes from non-matching UV map seams. The normal map only contributes in minimal part (only noticeable when the diffuse texture is not mapped on the model, i.e. bottom left render). I have also noticed that the horns are integral part of the mine body, thus the flattening of the faces that they are joined to. Personally I would separate horns from the body, and I would make the body perfectly symmetrical; you can then combine body and horns in a single composite object (similar to what we have with balloon's body and fins). Advantages of this method:
  
  
  • bodie's UV mapping would be easier, without too many junctions between different map regions (ideally just one junction along one of the meridians);
    
  • bodie's geometry would be perfectly regular, with no flat faces requiring to be smoothed;
    
  • there would be an increase of one vertex per horn, but a general reduction of edges and polygons to be calculated in game;
• smoothing groups: I have noticed that you reteined them in your low poly model. I only use them while I work on a model, and then I replace them with bevelled edges, when they absolutely necessary. Reason is that S3d ignores smoothing groups, and GR2 Editor refuses importing objects containing them. Is another Wings3d-related issue, or you have found a workaround to this?

Thank you gap

I'm hoping that privateer will be able to help with the texture issue. I will test if flipping the geometry on x and will let you know if it worked.

Yep, the texture is the main culprit for the "flattening"
The detaching of the horns should be easy, while I still will be ale to place them on the same texture.

In regards to smoothing groups, I believe it is not the issue of wings 3d, but more the interpretation of information by GR2, as I had no issues with smoothing group import into GR2.

@ gap,

I see the problem with your files as I stated in the PM. Doing some testing to give you an easy fix.

@ Targor Avelany,

gap is correct on his observations on your files. It's the disconnection of those plates causeing the weird look with the normal texture.
I'd disconnect any part of the horns that you don't want a rounded or smoothed edge on. Sides from tops and so on.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

I'm hoping that privateer will be able to help with the texture issue.

If you mean the UV map corruption issue, I am quite confident about privateer fixing this and other issues. At this point he is my last hope, as I am tired to disturb you every so often, and Trevally is waiting for us

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

I will test if flipping the geometry on x and will let you know if it worked.

I am pretty sure that this is the culprit. At this point I am curious to hear from silentmichel or by BIGREG (he seems to have disappeared btw), as they have imported tons on unsymmetrical objects in game...

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Yep, the texture is the main culprit for the "flattening"
The detaching of the horns should be easy, while I still will be ale to place them on the same texture.

yes, you can combine them with the remaining meshes, no need to import them as separate objects. Reworking the body geometry and remapping its texture might take a bit longer, but it will pay you back (matching texture edges can be a nightmare at times)

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

In regards to smoothing groups, I believe it is not the issue of wings 3d, but more the interpretation of information by GR2, as I had no issues with smoothing group import into GR2.

I am learning something new: so far I was sure that GR2 Editor couldn't import smoothing groups at all. Have you noticed if they make any differences once imported in a granny file? In dat files they don't make any difference (I suspect that S3d just ignores them).

One last note: the GR2 file you sent me opens correctly in GR2 Edit. v .374.1, but it is not renderes in Goblin's viewport

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by privateer

@ gap,

I see the problem with your files as I stated in the PM. Doing some testing to give you an easy fix.

@ Targor Avelany,

gap is correct on his observations on your files. It's the disconnection of those plates causeing the weird look with the normal texture.
I'd disconnect any part of the horns that you don't want a rounded or smoothed edge on. Sides from tops and so on.

Thank you, privateer. That is pretty much what I'm going to do when I get home

Now I just need to understand why the heck the lettering looks weird-mirrored.

You may need to flip both the UV's and the texture left to right.
Working on gap's import problem at the moment.
It should be easy to adjust after a few tests.

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Hmmm, maybe this weekend?

Originally Posted by gap

..I hope Volodya won't mind if you use it, as it seems unlikely that he will release his mod in the next future

Originally Posted by gap

I don't think Volodya has released his ORP Gryf / Enhanced Funnel Smoke compatiility patch yet..

Sorry guys.. I'm in the hospital last weeks (some money was received for the next surgery).. and as you remember, too much files were corrupted on my HDD and I'll have to make all editing works from scratch.. it will be the best solution than search of problematic files.. I think I'll be back closer to Christmas and 'll start whole work (at least I hope so )..

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

If you mean the UV map corruption issue, I am quite confident about privateer fixing this and other issues. At this point he is my last hope, as I am tired to disturb you every so often, and Trevally is waiting for us



I am pretty sure that this is the culprit. At this point I am curious to hear from silentmichel or by BIGREG (he seems to have disappeared btw), as they have imported tons on unsymmetrical objects in game...



yes, you can combine them with the remaining meshes, no need to import them as separate objects. Reworking the body geometry and remapping its texture might take a bit longer, but it will pay you back (matching texture edges can be a nightmare at times)



I am learning something new: so far I was sure that GR2 Editor couldn't import smoothing groups at all. Have you noticed if they make any differences once imported in a granny file? In dat files they don't make any difference (I suspect that S3d just ignores them).

One last note: the GR2 file you sent me opens correctly in GR2 Edit. v .374.1, but it is not renderes in Goblin's viewport

I'll send you a different one. The problem has something to do with renaming the bones.

There are 3 main issues that I see with importing at the moment:
1) inability to use non-3ds max file exports.
2) I'm still having issue with the way SOMETIMES the meshes become inverted along the x axis (what what I can say at least).
It applies to S3D and Sh3/Sh4 (learned that while working on the IXb) and now it somehow/somewhat happens in Sh5: and that really annoys me because I do not understand why all of a sudden.
3) renaming and deleting: this issue applies to all parts: bones, materials and mesh names. Sometimes it works and sometimes it just messes up the entire file in the weirdest ways - gaps example is very appropriate.

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by privateer

You may need to flip both the UV's and the texture left to right.
Working on gap's import problem at the moment.
It should be easy to adjust after a few tests.

Let me know. I will also try when I get home.

By flipping, you mean that I should mirror the UVs from left to right and the texture (so the letters on the texture are "mirrored"), correct?

@gap,
also, if you do need for me to import things, do not ever hesitate to bug me.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Now I just need to understand why the heck the lettering looks weird-mirrored.

Originally Posted by privateer

You may need to flip both the UV's and the texture left to right.

I am afraid this won't help either: I can be wrong, a simple algebraic rule teaches us that a negative number times a negative number gives a positive number; in grammar, a double negation is equal to an affirmation, and I am pretty sure that flipping both the texture and its UV map would result in... nothing.

As I said before, there are two easy solution for the flipped lettering:

- pre-flipping only the lettering in the diffuse texture, so that it will look normal when mirrored in game. This would leave object's geometry still mirrored though.

- flipping the whole object around x or z (not both, due to what I have stated above about double negations). Talking about not moving objects, the choice about axis to be flipped is unrelevant, but ships and planes should be flipped on their x axis (flip z an they will move backwars )

In any case, the lettering should look "wrong" when rendered in 3ds/max, to look good in Goblin/GR2 Editor

Originally Posted by privateer

@ gap,

I see the problem with your files as I stated in the PM. Doing some testing to give you an easy fix.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

@gap,
also, if you do need for me to import things, do not ever hesitate to bug me.

Thank you Targor. The answer to your kind offer depends on how long it will take to privateer releasing at least a beta version of his tool