Indonesia shuts down military cooperation with Australia over phone tapping

[TarJak]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...letter/5118518


SBY has his private letter from Abbott and responds in the media.

My read is we'll sign up for restrictions on our intelligence gathering in Indonesia, which the intelligence community will likely ignore and we'll be back to spying as normal.

Loopholes are stock and trade in these sorts of agreements.

[Jimbuna]

Tell him to go and play with the fairies.

[Catfish]

One thing to gather intelligence.
Another thing to spy aggressively.
A third thing this happening among so-called friends.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Catfish

One thing to gather intelligence.
Another thing to spy aggressively.
A third thing this happening among so-called friends.

All three have been methods used by states since well there was more than one state.In other words for at least 8,000 years this game has been playing out nothing new to see here.

And it is not just states companies spy on each other all the time and have for years.

[Catfish]

True .. but the scope of this new spying is a completely different animal.
And you seem to thoroughly underestimate the impact on the rest of the non-anglo-saxon world, or better the view towards this kind and scope of spying.
Yes all do now know you give a sh.. about that rest, but this does not really change their view. For some this kind of behaviour is still lower than prostitution. Not to insult the latter

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Catfish

True .. but the scope of this new spying is a completely different animal.
And you seem to thoroughly underestimate the impact on the rest of the non-anglo-saxon world, or better the view towards this kind and scope of spying.
Yes all do now know you give a sh.. about that rest, but this does not really change their view. For some this kind of behaviour is still lower than prostitution. Not to insult the latter

I think the second part is a slight mistranslation anyway I think I understand what you meant to say.

It seems to be that for some time the Anglo-Saxon has been in control of the world for some time most likely because espionage over the ages along with military power has allowed it to be that way.Why you think that another would not do the same is hard for me to fathom.China who long ago was a great power and was also at the time far ahead of Europe used espionage extensively Sun Tzu said that effective spying was a key element in maintaining power he never once said a thing about playing fair.Other states if they had the resources would be no different the the US or Ancient China or Nazi Germany or the USSR.

The entire idea of espionage is to of course to know what is happening behind the scenes in a place to which one is not permitted openly to know the sought information.

I never said that it was right or wrong merely that a state or similar organization spying,snooping what have you on your has always been around.

The way I see it the technology has changed true but in the past states have had very strong control over their own people Nazi Germany and the USSR are two excellent examples of sates that extensive internal and external networks and saying the wrong thing was extremely hazardous.Soviet spies in the 1930's and 40's had extensively infiltrated key US government facilities and projects.

They say that prostitution is the oldest profession if it is then spying is the second oldest.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

They say that prostitution is the oldest profession if it is then spying is the second oldest.

Wrong SteelBBY! Mata Hari and Rahab would argue with ya on that one; The two professions are the same age and we must defer to their expertise!. A problem in logic arises(did I say that!) If 'gentlemen do not read each others mail' and of course everyone IS reading everyone else's mail and some ers even confess to sneaking peeks at their xmas gifts, then obviously there are no gentlemen to begin with...which makes Mata and Rahabs' jobs a whole lot simpler! Circe of the Odyssey was probably paid off by Penelope's suitors to detain Odysseus for a year said it best "men are pigs, but love their gryllic state."

Originally Posted by TarJak

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...letter/5118518


SBY has his private letter from Abbott and responds in the media.

My read is we'll sign up for restrictions on our intelligence gathering in Indonesia, which the intelligence community will likely ignore and we'll be back to spying as normal.

Loopholes are stock and trade in these sorts of agreements.

Soooo are the Indonesians going to agree and abide by the same "Code" or is that just for us? ,haven't anything mentioned about them holding to the same standards.

As Tarjack says ,it'll be business as usual soon ,us spying on them and them spying on us! - probably right after their elections are over.