THE CONFLICT THREAD

Originally Posted by gap

Nonetheless, we must also consider that a 16-digit hex number can assume values from 0 to 18,446,744,073,709,552,000 lol. Unless we consider human error as a factor, the evenience of randomly duplicated Id's is extremely unlikely

Saw that same arguement in SH3 long ago. Results were still many ID conficts even after the basic 'cloneing' issues were solved.
Throw in animations and how those use ID's, then add any ID corrections by the Game engine itself by enternal cloneing? The numbers get smaller real quick.

[volodya61]

Hi Vlad

Originally Posted by vlad29

Hi Volodya! Can confirm that Sub Flags and AI Sub Crew, and + SubExaust mod caused CTD for me also long time ago. Tried dozens of times to put them in various positions in my mod list, but the result was the same So just to stop using those mods was the best solution

That's why I stopped my work on my new mod-pack/build.. in the latest version (December, 2012) all these mods were present.. but now I can't use them together with the new mods and new versions of old mods.. as soon as I add any of the new mods to my pack/list I get constant CTDs on the campaign start loading..

[gap]

Originally Posted by privateer

Saw that same arguement in SH3 long ago. Results were still many ID conficts even after the basic 'cloneing' issues were solved.
Throw in animations and how those use ID's, then add any ID corrections by the Game engine itself by enternal cloneing? The numbers get smaller real quick.

Yes, but how many ID's can already be in use... one billion maybe? This would still be about 18.5 billion times lesser than the total number of possible ID's

Originally Posted by gap

Yes, but how many ID's can already be in use... one billion maybe? This would still be about 18.5 billion times lesser than the total number of possible ID's

The total number depends on how many ID's the GR2 files are useing. The dats in stock SH5 are useing 9265.
Add in any dats or edited GR2 ID's added by mods? The number can get pretty large.
A somewhat Stock GWX 3 has 122563 and those numbers don't count what was unknown ID's when the program was written.

Now the Original files in all versions from 3 up, don't use random numbers.
There is code to create ID numbers from the names in the files.
That's what you see in GoblinEditor for SH5 happening on GR2 files.

The problem with randomly creating ID's is you have no way to see if that number was used in other dats or GR2 files so it is possible (and has happened) that ID's can be duplicated at the worst possible moment!

[gap]

Originally Posted by privateer

The total number depends on how many ID's the GR2 files are useing. The dats in stock SH5 are useing 9265.

how did you count them?

Originally Posted by privateer

A somewhat Stock GWX 3 has 122563 and those numbers don't count what was unknown ID's when the program was written.

unknown Id's? What's that?

Originally Posted by privateer

...it is possible (and has happened) that ID's can be duplicated at the worst possible moment!

Duplicated Id's are a constant source of anxiety whe I plan to add a new object or controller in game. Diagnosing hem would be a real nightmare

I have a program the reads all dats, sims, zon, etc., and finds all ID,s.
It then compares to see all confilicting ID's in known files in the Whole Game.
(It was written by ref for the GWX Team)

Unknown ID's at that time were ID's that we did not know were ID's. Such as some of the Mesh Animation stuff in SH3.

Since then I've discovered ID's in SH4's animations that do not follow the 64 byte rule we were use to.


Random number generation is a whole science in itself. Some very big Companies are still dumping lots of cash into the whole thing!
The problem faced in SH Games is makeing sure you don't pop an already used number! And that has happened many times.

I posted before that Sergbuto seems to have figured out how the SH Engine gets the ID's from a name.
Maybe I should ask one of the Dev's that signed the poster they sent me for more details?

[gap]

Originally Posted by privateer

I have a program the reads all dats, sims, zon, etc., and finds all ID,s.
It then compares to see all confilicting ID's in known files in the Whole Game.
(It was written by ref for the GWX Team)

Useful tool. My question was actually pleonastic: I was almost sure you had deviced one of your tricks for keeping track of all those ID's

Originally Posted by privateer

Unknown ID's at that time were ID's that we did not know were ID's. Such as some of the Mesh Animation stuff in SH3.

Since then I've discovered ID's in SH4's animations that do not follow the 64 byte rule we were use to.

I see

Originally Posted by privateer

Random number generation is a whole science in itself. Some very big Companies are still dumping lots of cash into the whole thing!
The problem faced in SH Games is makeing sure you don't pop an already used number! And that has happened many times.

I posted before that Sergbuto seems to have figured out how the SH Engine gets the ID's from a name.
Maybe I should ask one of the Dev's that signed the poster they sent me for more details?

Since Goblin Editor is able to generate GR2 Id's, if I had the skills I would try digging for the algorythm into its code rather than in game

I asked the Dev that sent me the poster how they get an ID from a name.
IF he can provide that info?
We can write a whole new scanner program without the pain.

[gap]

Originally Posted by privateer

I asked the Dev that sent me the poster how they get an ID from a name.
IF he can provide that info?
We can write a whole new scanner program without the pain.

Fingers crossed. While we wait for answers, you could show us a picture of the poster

This link will allow you to zoom in real good!


http://s108.photobucket.com/user/pri..._0833.jpg.html

[gap]

Originally Posted by privateer

This link will allow you to zoom in real good!


http://s108.photobucket.com/user/pri..._0833.jpg.html

wow... beautiful!

Sent you an E-Mail with IMPORTANT info!

[Mikemike47]

Originally Posted by privateer

I have a program the reads all dats, sims, zon, etc., and finds all ID,s.
It then compares to see all confilicting ID's in known files in the Whole Game.
(It was written by ref for the GWX Team)

I posted before that Sergbuto seems to have figured out how the SH Engine gets the ID's from a name.
Maybe I should ask one of the Dev's that signed the poster they sent me for more details?

Sweet. Good to hear about another tool for the game.
I am working on Voices Reloaded which have IDs in the data\cfg folder for dialogs.cfg. I haven't even attempted to figure out what IDs do here.

Given good contacts with the Devs I am told several things that adjust what I believed.
All ID's for SH3/4 and maybe SH5 non-GR2 files are random generations.
They do have a way to insure that ID's are not repeated and it seems anything in the same file has a close ID with only a few bytes changed.

So what Sergbuto posted is close to being the actual case but not the whole story.

The GR2's seem to use a hash function which I have not figured out but have some clue to thanks again to a Dev.
I also will no longer hide nor protect any companies interests in any Game or software.
Shoud that bother you? Look into the companies that payed me to do such things.