Obamacare

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

You don't seem to understand what a monopoly is. I'm wondering how basic to be here.

The industry more closely resembles a heavily regulated oligopoly than anything else - but even that isn't quite correct. This is the US healthcare sector I'm talking about.

In the UK you have a monopolistic system, but it isn't a monopoly due to the NHS being a state body. Words and definitions matter.

How can US healthcare be a monopoly when multiple corporations and hospital chains compete for business, multiple health insurance bodies compete for business? You say it's corrupt? You might be right but corruption is not an economic industry structure whereas a monopoly is.

Corruption is bad, a monopoly is also bad but that doesn't make them the same thing!

Prices are high due to a perverse incentive model, a skewed risk pool, and overly lax consumer protections. All of which the ACA at least attempts to address.

Edit - there's a load of stuff I could recommend you read as well. Such as - what's in the law and what it means.

EDIT 2 - For anyone talking about how "the people don't want Obamacare"

NYTimes: Closer Look at Polls Finds Views of Health Law a Bit Less Negative
http://nyti.ms/1aJd4xV

True, it's more unpopular than popular. But that includes people who think it doesn't go far enough. And no poll finds even a plurality in favour of shutting down the government over it.

Monopolism is the corruption - the cancer - of free market mechanisms.
Cartels are monopolists cooperating. Cartels influence the general price-building on the market, preventing free markets, and turning competition into show. And that is the case with pharmaceutical industries, and health service providers over here, and over there as well.
What laws say, is not the relevant thing. What is being done in reality, independent from whether the law allows it or not, wants it or not, is what counts. BTW, you may want to question the m,otives of those making the laws. Irt'S not as if they are free of from their own egoist drives. And lobbies and bribers sit in their most inner circles. The rules are made to the liking of those they once were meant to regulate.

#And is the state really the more competent regulator? Planned economies are a fetish of socialism, putting bureaucracy above free market. I am opposing this idea. History has proven it wrong, so very often. One should have the decency to finally learn the lessons. The problems we have today is last but not least due to the state/law-maker/politicians thinking it/theory can outsmart the market and forsee things so much better and regulate so much more competently. The violation of basic free market reasonability is the original sin that has led us to where we are today. And as Einstein already said: the kind of thinking that has caused a problem to build up in the first is very unlikely to produce the solution to it.

The law-maker only should be active regarding destroying monopolies, and preventing them.
The law maker also should not be allowed to print money. He is a monopolist himself - holding a monopoly for creating money out of nothing. This is one of the very basic roots of problems today.

I understand perfectly what monopolies are. Its just that I do not take something as granted just because it is written in a witty formulation on some piece of paper. Armies of bureaucrats are busy with watering down such formulations and adding appendices and formulations that make the formulation appear to say one thing, while allowing so very many other things and exceptions at the same time. Not to mention that the formulation itself has been left to lobbies to create and/or heavily influence them: making the fox the guardian of the hen-house that way.

I am a nihilist regarding these formal issues. But the term nihilism is often misused and misunderstood, and I refer to Camus himself when saying nihilism does not mean to not believe in anything. According to Camus it means to not believe in what just seems to be. And that are two completely different statements.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

You received subsidies every time you bought health insurance, employers received subsidies every time they provided it, you all paid subsidies to all the people who couldn't be arsed to buy any insurance.
Subsidies are not something that didn't exist prior to ACA.

The question was not directed to you Tribesman. This is not the White House Press Corp. You are not Robert Gibbs. Let him answer the question. Thanks.

And, as far as subsidies, I receive none. My pay scale does not allow it. For the cheapest plan of a family of 4 costs me $10K or $833.33 per month. If I did not already have healthcare provided by my place of employment I would not be able to afford the ACA.

And, as far as subsidies, I receive none

Of course you do, the whole healthcare system is run by subsidies, its why US healthcare takes more government money than any other system.

If I did not already have healthcare provided by my place of employment

employers received subsidies every time they provided it.
If you are getting something from someone who is being subsidised to do it then you are receiving subsidies.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Of course you do, the whole healthcare system is run by subsidies, its why US healthcare takes more government money than any other system.


employers received subsidies every time they provided it.
If you are getting something from someone who is being subsidised to do it then you are receiving subsidies.

Wonderful Tribesman. Let's name it the other way. Tax Credits for healthcare. I do not receive any. But that has little bearing. The cost for a family of 4 at my pay scale is unaffordable for me. My budgeting does not include $8k for insurance. The unsubsidised annual premium is $8.955.00. Again, if I did not have healthcare coverage with my employer I would not be able to afford this. What I demonstrated above is not from my employer. This is just me working an insurance plan. Lets stop with the subsidy nonsense and look at the facts as presented on the subsidy calculator.


Here is a good link. Play with the subsidy calculator.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

[Tchocky]

I understand perfectly what monopolies are. Its just that I do not take something as granted just because it is written in a witty formulation on some piece of paper.

You clearly don't understand. Take my word for it.

I am a nihilist regarding these formal issues.

Quite.

Your approach to word definitions is unusual.

Language is not a conspiracy against you.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Wonderful Tribesman. Let's name it the other way. Tax Credits for healthcare. I do not receive any. But that has little bearing. The cost for a family of 4 at my pay scale is unaffordable for me. My budgeting does not include $8k for insurance. The unsubsidised annual premium is $8.955.00. Again, if I did not have healthcare coverage with my employer I would not be able to afford this. What I demonstrated above is not from my employer. This is just me working an insurance plan. Lets stop with the subsidy nonsense and look at the facts as presented on the subsidy calculator.


Here is a good link. Play with the subsidy calculator.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

What are the deductibles on your health insurance plan?

I see most of the plans on CNN/NBC etc include a $5,000 deductible. So if you do get sick what does that mean? That you have to pay the first $5,000?

I know if I have a wreck in my car that the insurance company will pay all of the damages except for $500 and that part is up to me to pay the garage, right?

But as we all know garages can be shady and charge you more with a little kick back if you use them for say a fender bender. How can health insurance be any different?

They will overcharge and expect to be paid back by the feds. I asked the local VA clinic about "obamacare" and they said, "we don't know yet what it will do for you" ...

In other words come back after it is finally working January 2014, but yet I see on TV that the VA is pushing for vets to sign up for "obamacare".

Now why would the VA be for "obamacare" I asked myself and then I realized that the VA is mostly free for veterans (unless you have a lot of money). Simple deduction they will now get paid back for all of their services to veterans.

One more problem is the five hundred (500) million dollars to be taken from medicare for the implimation of "obamacare". Where will that money come from?

I know one way it will come is from senior citizens having to pay for medicare which was $75 a month three years ago and has gone up to $125 a month and is expected to go up to $200 a month by January 2014 and that information does not come from the web, but from the social security office I talked to.

What will keep the cost of paying for people that don't have medical insurance ... did I say that wrong?

What will keep the cost of people now getting health insurance via "obamacare" that is what I mean?

What will keep that cost from going up year after year after year? These are real questions that no one can answer and this is why we should delay the healthcare act and study it more thoroughly.

They (the US Congress) interview sports stars for their drug use and question IRS agents about tea party exemptions getting no answers, but they can't sit down and hash out a better plan because they are wasting their time on other silly matters.

Have you noticed that when President Obama talks about his health care plan that he even calls it "obamacare"? Sounds kind of vain to me

This picture represents the time it will take to get you medical insurance to agree to pay for all your needs on "obamacare"

Lets stop with the subsidy nonsense and look at the facts as presented on the subsidy calculator.

You brought it up.
Your calculator doesn't work for the subsidies on your policy as its your employer who is subsidised for your insurance.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

You brought it up.
Your calculator doesn't work for the subsidies on your policy as its your employer who is subsidised for your insurance.

No, you answered for another member that I asked a pointed question. Now, for the love of heaven.....

Let's try this....if my employer said he has no interest in carrying my HC anymore and I should go to the market place for coverage I would not be able to afford it at my current rate of pay to tax credit/subsidy ratio.

Let's try this.....I run my own business. I have a family of 4. I have no health insurance. As of Oct 1 I was told by law I needed to get health insurance. I sign on to the ACA sight to see a smiling woman indicating how wonderful this is. I input my gross income. I input all other required information. A magical unsubsidized/ zero tax credit number calculated on my income pops up. $10,000.00. This is not budgeted into my current lifestyle. I would think there are many others in the same boat.

Now, I input a single parent of 1 that makes less than $25k per year. It pops up, Medicade. Or in laymans terms, free.

[AVGWarhawk]

[QUOTE=Mr Quatro;2122363]

What are the deductibles on your health insurance plan?

I see most of the plans on CNN/NBC etc include a $5,000 deductible. So if you do get sick what does that mean? That you have to pay the first $5,000?

I know if I have a wreck in my car that the insurance company will pay all of the damages except for $500 and that part is up to me to pay the garage, right?

But as we all know garages can be shady and charge you more with a little kick back if you use them for say a fender bender. How can health insurance be any different?

They will overcharge and expect to be paid back by the feds. I asked the local VA clinic about "obamacare" and they said, "we don't know yet what it will do for you" ...

In other words come back after it is finally working January 2014, but yet I see on TV that the VA is pushing for vets to sign up for "obamacare".

Now why would the VA be for "obamacare" I asked myself and then I realized that the VA is mostly free for veterans (unless you have a lot of money). Simple deduction they will now get paid back for all of their services to veterans.

One more problem is the five hundred (500) million dollars to be taken from medicare for the implimation of "obamacare". Where will that money come from?

I know one way it will come is from senior citizens having to pay for medicare which was $75 a month three years ago and has gone up to $125 a month and is expected to go up to $200 a month by January 2014 and that information does not come from the web, but from the social security office I talked to.

What will keep the cost of paying for people that don't have medical insurance ... did I say that wrong?

What will keep the cost of people now getting health insurance via "obamacare" that is what I mean?

What will keep that cost from going up year after year after year? These are real questions that no one can answer and this is why we should delay the healthcare act and study it more thoroughly.

They (the US Congress) interview sports stars for their drug use and question IRS agents about tea party exemptions getting no answers, but they can't sit down and hash out a better plan because they are wasting their time on other silly matters.

Have you noticed that when President Obama talks about his health care plan that he even calls it "obamacare"? Sounds kind of vain to me

Correct, you pay the first $5000.00.
Correct on the car damage. You pay the $500.00 deductible.
Yes, insurers have watchdogs for those attempting to overcharge. However, a new scam I have seen concerns insurance for ones pet. The vet charges more if it is on the insurance co.

I can not say anything about the VA. I would think the vets still get the care that was provided before and at the same cost. I believe it is free. I don't know.

As for the elderly, I know of two dropped by ETNA.

To be honest, the coverage of the medical will come from tax payers. I honestly don't know where anyone else would think it is coming from somewhere else. Also add that those already insured pay premiums for the uninsured. These premiums will probably go up

And yes, BO looks quite arrogant. But, to save some sort of dignity he must stand his ground. If he caves his presidency from here on out will be laughable at best.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I can not say anything about the VA. I would think the vets still get the care that was provided before and at the same cost. I believe it is free. I don't know.

I do. It is, if you have no other insurance (i.e too poor). If you do have insurance they bill it just like any other medical service does.

I don't know if that's going to change.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I do. It is, if you have no other insurance (i.e too poor). If you do have insurance they bill it just like any other medical service does.

I don't know if that's going to change.

Looking at the exchanges and based on income the vet may be able to qualify for free Medicad as well as VA. Like anything else, everything is based on what you make.

We can say this based on my investigation, the healthcare for some will be free based on income(poverty level) and number in the family or more than likely the combination of both.

We can say some will not meet the criteria for tax credit/subsidy and will pay something. More than likely a bill they can not pay or do not want. Or both.

For some this will work out nicely. Specifically those with a pre-exisiting condition


At any rate, I went to the Hair Cuttery yesterday. I asked the lady cutting my hair about the Hair Cuttery's HC policy. She said it is bare minimum and does not qualify under the ACA. However, the Hair Cuttery was looking to assist in getting the employees on the ACA Market Place and pay for the plan at said ACA Market Place. My hair cut went up $2.00 No seriously it did.

[Mr Quatro]

• http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/ob...n=widgetphase1

• • Bronze plans: Offer the lowest amount of coverage — 60 percent of medical costs on average — but will have the lowest premiums.
  • Silver: 70 percent of costs are covered.
  • Gold: 80 percent of costs are covered.
  • Platinum: 90 percent of costs are covered, but these plans will have the highest premiums.

  What does the application process involve?
  
  
  
  The U.S. Department of Health and Humans Services has devised a three-page application (down from the original 21 pages) for individuals to apply (online or on paper). You will need to provide the following types of information:

  • Name and personal facts (address, Social Security number, date of birth).
  • Health status (pregnant, physical/mental conditions).
  • Employment status and household income level (using pay stubs or W-2 forms).
  • Current health insurance coverage (if any).
  • Permission to give an authorized representative or “navigator” access to application information.

Am I the only person that see's something wrong with one agency having all of this information available to them in one place?

Wait I am not through yet ... look at this little fact that everyone that does not have insurance by March 31st 2014 will be fined ...

How will they know if you don't have insurance? This amounts to a census to me, no longer will they need a census bureau operated by the Commerce department.

What if you don't report your income properly? A lot of questions here with no answers.

If you miss the March 31 deadline, you will be required to pay a tax penalty next year to the IRS — $95 per individual (or 1 percent of your income, whichever is greater), $285 per family. That fine rises to $325 per individual (or 2 percent of income), $975 per family in 2015. The penalty maxes out at $695 per individual (or 2.5 percent of income) and $2,085 per family in 2016.

After March 31, you can only apply for insurance if you experience a major life change, such as job loss, divorce, or birth in your family. The next open enrollment period (for 2015) will begin Oct. 15, 2014.

Boondoggle in the making and only the GOP care ...

part of the same US Congress that will constantly have to make changes to the affordable healthcare act of 2010 till the day they die or we die which ever comes first.

One things for certain we are born, we live and we die

[AVGWarhawk]

Still need the census. Some will not need to sign up as they qualify for Medicad. Some have their own insurance via work. However, all will need to provide proof of insurance with the tax returns.

If you do not report your income correctly you are fined. The IRS will audit you.

I do believe the ACA will be fluid and change. This is a first. It might be found original estimates of cost are much to low. We are then bent over for more cash. We might find the original estimates were high. When then hope for a cut in premiums. But don't bet on it.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Still need the census. Some will not need to sign up as they qualify for Medicad. Some have their own insurance via work. However, all will need to provide proof of insurance with the tax returns.

If you do not report your income correctly you are fined. The IRS will audit you.

I do believe the ACA will be fluid and change. This is a first. It might be found original estimates of cost are much to low. We are then bent over for more cash. We might find the original estimates were high. When then hope for a cut in premiums. But don't bet on it.

That is the sad part, the 16th amendment is unamerican to begin with, fact we have to report income to the government and give a percentage of it without consent, now showing proof of insurance, it's just the most outrageous thing. Supreme Court, well those who voted for it should all be tried and imprisoned as well as those in congress who supported it and the fool who signed it.How anyone can be okay with this is beyond me, its just wrong.

[Tchocky]

Wait, Bubbles. You dislike viewing the Constitution as A living document - except for the parts you don't like.