Government Shutdown

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think that is the thing that has been the undoing of the Republicans of late, well, one of them anyway. The Democrats have been laying out some pretty obvious traps for them, and they're just running into them with a big smile on their face. The Syrian vote was a trap, but the Russians managed to save the Republicans (that's something I never thought I'd type).
There's been very little political sense in the GOP for a while, since they just walk, or perhaps are pushed by their radical members, into some very obvious traps and it's costing them.

Not sure I'd agree with you on the whole one party system thing, but obviously America has a different way of conducting things than the rest of the world, so I wouldn't start to say about some sort of totalitarian takeover of the US and the destruction of the US constitution.

As for the standing, well, 'the chosen one' has certainly made some hefty foreign policy blunders which have only compounded those made by his predecessor.

Don't agree with the one party thing? Remember 2008-2010 with Dems controlling House, Senate, and Presidency? That is what got us obamacare, despite the people not wanting it, along with a host of other blunders.Should obama get that majority back, we will be in grave danger.

[vienna]

On the local news here in Los Angeles, someone came up with a very clever analogy for the Far Right's attempt to stop ACA by shutting down the government: It's kind of like the last place team in the league trying to stop the World Series just because they didn't make it to the playoffs...

The Far Right's minions need to accept the fact neither Obama nor the Democrats soley passed the ACA; the law was passed by Congress and only could have done so with the complicity of both Dem and GOP members of both Houses. Obama din't pass the law: no President can pass a law, only Congress. The Dems in Congress didn't solely pass the law: they don't have the numbers just on their own to do so and were abetted by some GOP members. The Far Right also doesn't have anywhere near the numbers to overturn the law through the proscribed Consitutional i.e., legal means, and are now resorting to childish bullying tactics. They are an embarassment. And the whole idea of blacklisting by the extreme Right of any GOP Congressional member who does not toe the line is anti-thetical not only to the ideals of Constitutional, democratic processes, it reeks of power through extortion, or less delicately, racketeerism. If the only way the "ayatollahs" of the GOP Far Right can exert their influence is to blackmail their own membership, then the future of the Party is dim indeed. If the Party cannot sway opinion using reason or logic or decency and must bully it's way through, they will find themselves even further out of favor with the voting public than they are now. It is impossible to defeat your foe (Obama/Dems) when you hand to them a fully loaded weapon to use against you...


<O>

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Don't agree with the one party thing? Remember 2008-2010 with Dems controlling House, Senate, and Presidency? That is what got us obamacare, despite the people not wanting it, along with a host of other blunders.Should obama get that majority back, we will be in grave danger.

Obama is finished after this term. It will make little difference to him while basking in the sun on a Hawaiian island!

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by vienna

On the local news here in Los Angeles, someone came up with a very clever analogy for the Far Right's attempt to stop ACA by shutting down the government: It's kind of like the last place team in the league trying to stop the World Series just because they didn't make it to the playoffs...

The Far Right's minions need to accept the fact neither Obama nor the Democrats soley passed the ACA; the law was passed by Congress and only could have done so with the complicity of both Dem and GOP members of both Houses. Obama din't pass the law: no President can pass a law, only Congress. The Dems in Congress didn't solely pass the law: they don't have the numbers just on their own to do so and were abetted by some GOP members. The Far Right also doesn't have anywhere near the numbers to overturn the law through the proscribed Consitutional i.e., legal means, and are now resorting to childish bullying tactics. They are an embarassment. And the whole idea of blacklisting by the extreme Right of any GOP Congressional member who does not toe the line is anti-thetical not only to the ideals of Constitutional, democratic processes, it reeks of power through extortion, or less delicately, racketeerism. If the only way the "ayatollahs" of the GOP Far Right can exert their influence is to blackmail their own membership, then the future of the Party is dim indeed. If the Party cannot sway opinion using reason or logic or decency and must bully it's way through, they will find themselves even further out of favot with the voting public than they are now. It is impossible to defeat your foe (Obama/Dems) when you hand to them a fully loaded weapon to use against you...


<O>

Wrong! The Democrats had a super majority, controlled House, Senate, and the Presidency.The public was against this law but the Dems thumbed their noses and passed it anyways, obama signed it.Now, the law is clearly a threat to the economy and health care system and is even more unpopular so the GOP is actually fighting for the people and made reasonable proposals to drop or just delay two unpopular provisions, the individual mandate(business mandate was delayed, why not for the people? pretty unfair to give business a break but not the people) and the 15% tax on medical equipment which is one reason premiums have already risen and will continue to rise as the cost gets passed down the chain from producer, to supplier, to hospital, to insurance company, to the consumer, all while the government gets money.

The Democrats ignored the will of the people, and said nope, no deal, and shut down the government.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Don't agree with the one party thing? Remember 2008-2010 with Dems controlling House, Senate, and Presidency? That is what got us obamacare, despite the people not wanting it, along with a host of other blunders.Should obama get that majority back, we will be in grave danger.

As said from the top of the hill on the right of the center, and as would be flat-out denied from the hill of the left of center.
The center is where I'm coming from, and right now there's so much noise being made from left and right that the whole picture is a mess. It's a bit like two hills, and in the middle are the people, and on these hills are the ideological Republicans and Democrats, and they're just pouring water into the ground, and they're keeping nice and dry, and that water is running down hill and flooding the poor sods in the center.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by vienna

On the local news here in Los Angeles.....

I stopped reading there. Any "news" out of the not-so-golden state, with the democratic super majority is going to be slinging more rhetoric then my previous post. Which is quite a lot.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Oberon

As said from the top of the hill on the right of the center, and as would be flat-out denied from the hill of the left of center.
The center is where I'm coming from, and right now there's so much noise being made from left and right that the whole picture is a mess. It's a bit like two hills, and in the middle are the people, and on these hills are the ideological Republicans and Democrats, and they're just pouring water into the ground, and they're keeping nice and dry, and that water is running down hill and flooding the poor sods in the center.

Sure, easy to get lost in the noise, that is what the Dems want.However, anyone really paying attention should be able to see, a deal, and a reasonable one at that, was there, the Dems refused, it is that simple.I get your point though. I just can't understand "centrists" , I seem them as unprincipled, not knowing where they stand.Failing to see the sheer idiocy and evil in some policies.This is something the dems have learned to take advantage of though, those willing to give the benefit of the doubt.Honestly, it is the only reason obama is president again despite all the damning evidence, we are a nation that is fair, sometimes too fair.

[Dread Knot]

[Oberon]

Cause aside, some members are being...sensible and taking this opportunity to clock up some points:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-the-shutdown/



Also:

[Mr Quatro]

Someone said that the republican's in the house voted this Obama health care act into being and that is just not so.

Pelosi was the majority house speaker at the time it passed, remember?

It was congress minority leader Boehner that came in at midnight and threw the hundreds of pages up in the air as thick as a phone book and said, "have any of you read this law"? "hell no you haven't" "all you've done is vote on party grounds"

That's where it stands three years later a law passed on party grounds with no give or take, except the last one to extend the employers penalties until 2015 and now we know why?

This law will hurt 300 million people to help 30 million ...

What's the next takeover, cell phones, gasoline, electrical power, buy a government car only?

Name one thing good to come out of hiring 13,000 additional IRS agents to check on your banking activities?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think that is the thing that has been the undoing of the Republicans of late, well, one of them anyway. The Democrats have been laying out some pretty obvious traps for them, and they're just running into them with a big smile on their face. The Syrian vote was a trap, but the Russians managed to save the Republicans (that's something I never thought I'd type).

I do agree.

There's been very little political sense in the GOP for a while, since they just walk, or perhaps are pushed by their radical members, into some very obvious traps and it's costing them.

I think as a party it is having a major identity crises. There's many more ideological divisions within the Republican party then the Democrats.

Not sure I'd agree with you on the whole one party system thing, but obviously America has a different way of conducting things than the rest of the world, so I wouldn't start to say about some sort of totalitarian takeover of the US and the destruction of the US constitution.

It's not going to happen overnight, but the way things are going, unless things change drastically, I think it will happen. Maybe not within my lifetime, but most certainly within the lifetime of my unborn child's. Especially if the only counter to the Democrats is fragmented, stumbles into political traps, and is unable to garner enough votes as a result.

What's more, currently the notion of "compromise" is right out. It's obviously out with the two parties, and its seen as a sign of weakness from their supporters. Personally, while I am not a big fan of the GOP, i am so throughly disgusted with the Democrats that I cannot force myself to listen to anything they have to say anymore. Watching Fienstien, Reid, or Obama speak? I can't do it. Watching any Democrat talking head only makes me angry. So i guess compromise is lost on me as well.

As for the standing, well, 'the chosen one' has certainly made some hefty foreign policy blunders which have only compounded those made by his predecessor.

True. It has never been lost on me that a lot of the BS we have today was started by Bush.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

I really, really, really hope the GOP nominate Cruz for president in 16.....

How a person can be influenced by external stuff.
When I saw this picture for the first time I didn't know who this Ted Cruz was. A few hours later I saw him on CNN for the first time and guess what... I saw him as some kind of lemmings

Not nice I don't know him and his politics

Markus

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I do agree.
I think as a party it is having a major identity crises. There's many more ideological divisions within the Republican party then the Democrats

Definitely, and in fact I think that both parties are having some deep identity crisis's, and both sides are drifting away from the center and off to their respective sides of the spectrum. In the Republicans there are more people reluctant to go in that direction than in the Democrats, and that has caused these divisions, with accusations and counter-accusations. I think that the Democratic unity is probably aided by the fact that they have a man in office, I suspect that if Obama wasn't president the Democrats would also be going through a self-validation cycle, a bit like our Labour party which is floundering around for ideas at the moment and trying to get back to its far-left roots, and making a real mess of it.

It's not going to happen overnight, but the way things are going, unless things change drastically, I think it will happen. Maybe not within my lifetime, but most certainly within the lifetime of my unborn child's. Especially if the only counter to the Democrats is fragmented, stumbles into political traps, and is unable to garner enough votes as a result.

I can't rule it out as impossible, certainly it could happen, just as the Nazis took over Germany, anything is possible if done slowly and carefully enough. I suspect that there would need to be a great deal of social, political and economic upheaval to permit something like this to happen, a major war or attack on America perhaps, like World War One and the subsequent financial collapse lead the pathway to the Nazi party.
I would caution though, against falling into a ideological trap that states that it would be a Democratic leadership that would do such a thing, honestly either side would take an opportunity to gain more power, it's got nothing to do with ideology, nothing to do with politics, but simple human greed, and that spans any ideology.

What's more, currently the notion of "compromise" is right out. It's obviously out with the two parties, and its seen as a sign of weakness from their supporters. Personally, while I am not a big fan of the GOP, i am so throughly disgusted with the Democrats that I cannot force myself to listen to anything they have to say anymore. Watching Fienstien, Reid, or Obama speak? I can't do it. Watching any Democrat talking head only makes me angry. So i guess compromise is lost on me as well.

There's a lot of anger in America, I must admit, the sheer emotion of the American society, often represented in anger and harsh rhetoric, un-nerves me, and I ponder if it hasn't lead to the impasse with emotions overwhelming and overriding rational thought. I don't know, I just see a lot of people opening their mouths first and then engaging their brains, and that is a worry.

True. It has never been lost on me that a lot of the BS we have today was started by Bush.

Indeed, certainly when you look at the debt, you see a plateau around the Clinton era...but then 9/11 happens and blam, off it goes.

Over here in Britain we have a term which originated in a political TV drama called 'The Thick of It', one of the more memorable characters in which is played by the same chap who will be the new Doctor Who. In it, he describes a situation as an 'omnishambles' which has made it into the Oxford dictionary with the following definition:

a situation that has been comprehensively mismanaged, characterized by a string of blunders and miscalculations:
anyone with five minutes to spare, a Maths GCSE, and a calculator could have averted the entire omnishambles by checking the civil servants' sums

The current situation in the United States IS an Omnishambles, and it's been caused by both sides, and it has been in the making for well over a decade.

[Wolferz]

Bread and circuses....
They steal our bread and we get clowned.

I have nothing good to say about either party so I won't say anything other than they're all complicit and culpable in my book.
It might be time to oil up the guillotine. Heads bobbing in the reflecting pool of that big phallic monument might dissuade the next batch of critters from doing something stupid too.

[eddie]

I think they got something to say here, eh?

http://now.msn.com/house-of-turds-ne...nment-shutdown