Obamacare

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Yeah, healthcare. How irrelevant.

This law is and never was about healthcare, it is about power and money.Power and money for the government under the guise of healthcare for the people.Really, if they wanted the uninsured insured, they could simply open up the medicare rolls for those who cant afford insurance, pay a low premium each year and boom, everyone is covered. No taxes, no mandates, none of that garbage.Divert some of the money they waste to this, problem solved.

[Armistead]

First Obamacare, then a single payer system. In the end the GOP will have to accept this as the better alternative, because Obamacare is doomed to failure.

no, because I am arguing with people who are just flat out wrong.There is a reason this law is so unpopular and it has nothing to do with "ignorance" of the public.

Really?
Come along young man, I am still waiting for you to enlighten me from my ignorance by your perfect knowledge of this legislation.
What is the matter? was that part of the legislation too hard, too complicated for you to manage even a brief summary?
Ok how about something simpler.
What are the provisions to ensure that something like sickle cell screening by the US PSTF is covered and the corresponding ban on insurance co payments for it?

You really should be more careful about what you claim to know, as you seem to fail every time you are questioned on your claimed knowledge.
When you fail you have a rather funny tendency to lash out by calling other people ignorant instead of taking a step back and thinking about the falseness of the claims you have made.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Really?
Come along young man, I am still waiting for you to enlighten me from my ignorance by your perfect knowledge of this legislation.
What is the matter? was that part of the legislation too hard, too complicated for you to manage even a brief summary?
Ok how about something simpler.
What are the provisions to ensure that something like sickle cell screening by the US PSTF is covered and the corresponding ban on insurance co payments for it?

You really should be more careful about what you claim to know, as you seem to fail every time you are questioned on your claimed knowledge.
When you fail you have a rather funny tendency to lash out by calling other people ignorant instead of taking a step back and thinking about the falseness of the claims you have made.

Yes Yes, lets ask about a part of a law I read in 210 after it was passed. A 2,000 plus page law by the way and if can't remember every little details, lets try to discredit, just stop tribesman, it's personal for you, you never prove your point. I offer points that are accepted fact much of the time. The law has a 15 percent tax on medical equipment along with others that are one reason costs are going up as costs gets passed along to the consumer.

I am just going to ignore you because it is personal and you will never be fair or try to discuss anything, you attack.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I am just going to ignore you because it is personal and you will never be fair or try to discuss anything, you attack.

BH why do you even entertain them? you should know by now you can't argue facts with trolls and 911 truthers because they just ignore or make up their own facts to fit whatever argument they want to have. they are only here to argue and never want to accept the truth or re-evaluate their position when you prove them wrong.

they will always point to the handful of things obamacare does right and blatantly ignore the 5,000 things it does wrong and how it completely destroys the greatest health care system in the world.

if other countries socialized care was so great why do people regularly die on year long waiting lists denied care until their number on the list comes up? people leave their countries and come to the USA to get the care they need without being told to wait in line and hope they don't die.


the sad truth is you cant stop obamacare because the lemmings blindly voted for santa clause who gives them free goodies (paid for by working americans). with 50% of America on the government dole there will never be a republican or conservative in control to undo the nanny state so it will stay that way until this country implodes and the people finally stop voting for socialism.

another truth is the health care industry is done in this country and health care will be a cash only product from now on. if you can pay you can get care, if not go sit on a government waiting list and be told what tests you are allowed to have rather then the ones you really need. this may actually get the unintended result of causing the side effect of having affordable health care in the form of cash only care.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Webster

BH why do you even entertain them? you should know by now you can't argue facts with trolls and 911 truthers because they just ignore or make up their own facts to fit whatever argument they want to have. they are only here to argue and never want to accept the truth or re-evaluate their position when you prove them wrong.

they will always point to the handful of things obamacare does right and blatantly ignore the 5,000 things it does wrong and how it completely destroys the greatest health care system in the world.

if other countries socialized care was so great why do people regularly die on year long waiting lists denied care until their number on the list comes up? people leave their countries and come to the USA to get the care they need without being told to wait in line and hope they don't die.


the sad truth is you cant stop obamacare because the lemmings blindly voted for santa clause who gives them free goodies (paid for by working americans). with 50% of America on the government dole there will never be a republican or conservative in control to undo the nanny state so it will stay that way until this country implodes and the people finally stop voting for socialism.

another truth is the health care industry is done in this country and health care will be a cash only product from now on. if you can pay you can get care, if not go sit on a government waiting list and be told what tests you are allowed to have rather then the ones you really need. this may actually get the unintended result of causing the side effect of having affordable health care in the form of cash only care.

I suppose because I have dealt with their types before and eventually, in most cases, they come around.Back when I was 17, 18, I was always the conservative, I knew better, I knew the evils of liberalism. Some was just a natural "wait a minute, this is bull" and other was proper influences, not wanting to be one of the ignorant masses.All my friends though, while intelligent, were typical kids who thought they had to be liberal.Now, here we are post college, in the real world and prob out of 6 I can think of I regularly sparred with in high school and college, 4 have flat out converted, one is on the fence and the other is a hardcore lefty who has yet to see the error of her ways.Most people get a bit more conservative as they age because reality does not match with liberal/progressive ideology.

Now, it is a given that internet discussion is far different than in person but I don't give up especially when I know that I am right.I am patient and love it when even years down road, I am proven correct.I will never give up the battle on obamacare and hope those in congress do not, it is that much of a threat. I don't want us to have NHS style system or a cash system where only those who can pay get the proper car, the rest linger on the government roles.I would rather fight it and try to change , do my part , that is the battle and it is how the long game is won. Win with ideas and logic, no matter what they call you, what they say, you keep pressing and eventually, it will work, will you everyone to see the light? No, but can get enough. Yes, it's a tough battle, that is why they want so many people dependent on the government, it means POWER.

I have fought and continue to fight this battle everyday, in class, with friends, and even on this forum.I do my part to make a difference, it works with some, not with others, results are often delayed but I have seen results know I have made a difference.This is why despite tribes being a troll, I don't give up, I prob won't ignore him because it is not in my nature but it does get old when he wont discuss, he just insults but oh well.

[AVGWarhawk]

Webster:

The sad truth is you cant stop obamacare because the lemmings blindly voted for santa clause who gives them free goodies (paid for by working americans). with 50% of America on the government dole there will never be a republican or conservative in control to undo the nanny state so it will stay that way until this country implodes and the people finally stop voting for socialism.

And the truth shall set you free!

Originally Posted by Webster

BH why do you even entertain them? you should know by now you can't argue facts with trolls and 911 truthers because they just ignore or make up their own facts to fit whatever argument they want to have. they are only here to argue and never want to accept the truth or re-evaluate their position when you prove them wrong.

they will always point to the handful of things obamacare does right and blatantly ignore the 5,000 things it does wrong and how it completely destroys the greatest health care system in the world.

if other countries socialized care was so great why do people regularly die on year long waiting lists denied care until their number on the list comes up? people leave their countries and come to the USA to get the care they need without being told to wait in line and hope they don't die.


the sad truth is you cant stop obamacare because the lemmings blindly voted for santa clause who gives them free goodies (paid for by working americans). with 50% of America on the government dole there will never be a republican or conservative in control to undo the nanny state so it will stay that way until this country implodes and the people finally stop voting for socialism.

another truth is the health care industry is done in this country and health care will be a cash only product from now on. if you can pay you can get care, if not go sit on a government waiting list and be told what tests you are allowed to have rather then the ones you really need. this may actually get the unintended result of causing the side effect of having affordable health care in the form of cash only care.

That post is hilarious
If you made it longer could you fit even more factual errors into it?
It even has false assertions that are Clarksonesque in stature

[vienna]

Yes Yes, lets ask about a part of a law I read in 210 after it was passed. A 2,000 plus page law by the way and if can't remember every little details, lets try to discredit, just stop tribesman, it's personal for you, you never prove your point. I offer points that are accepted fact much of the time. The law has a 15 percent tax on medical equipment along with others that are one reason costs are going up as costs gets passed along to the consumer.

I am just going to ignore you because it is personal and you will never be fair or try to discuss anything, you attack.

[Bolding is mine]


From Bubbles Post #35:

Really, it is not complicated, people like to make things complicated and hope the truth gets lost in all noise.

I see...the law is not complicated when you want to make your "point", but is a complicated "2,000 plus page law" with hard to remember details when your point is challenged. How very convienient, n'cest pas? A truly remarkable document, as transmutable to your whims as the ideas of logic, reason, ethics, or civility seem to be in your world. It also seems duplicitty is a large part of your stock. May I also suggest you have added equivocation to your repertoire?...

As I pointed out before, your speil is becoming quite tiresome. Not only have you become as the adults in a "Peanuts" cartoon or the "blah, blah, blah, Ginger, blah, blah, blah" dog, you are like some bad stand-up comedian who only has one five-minute routine he repeats over and over. We've heard it all before, too many times, and the jokes are no longer funny, if they ever were to begin with...


<O>

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by vienna

[Bolding is mine]


From Bubbles Post #35:




I see...the law is not complicated when you want to make your "point", but is a complicated "2,000 plus page law" with hard to remember details when your point is challenged. How very convienient, n'cest pas? A truly remarkable document, as transmutable to your whims as the ideas of logic, reason, ethics, or civility seem to be in your world. It also seems duplicitty is a large part of your stock. May I also suggest you have added equivocation to your repertoire?...

As I pointed out before, your speil is becoming quite tiresome. Not only have you become as the adults in a "Peanuts" cartoon or the "blah, blah, blah, Ginger, blah, blah, blah" dog, you are like some bad stand-up comedian who only has one five-minute routine he repeats over and over. We've heard it all before, too many times, and the jokes are no longer funny, if they ever were to begin with...


<O>

Again, you are twisting thing.2,000 pages is a lot to go through, remembering every little part due to the sheer bulk, is a lot to ask, if it were only thing I had to do, sure but I do have other things going on.However, the law in itself, is not that complicated, what is does and will do is pretty easy to see, especially the negative aspects which far outweigh the few positive ones.We are already seeing much of it, its easy to see, those pushing this law want it to seem more complicated than it is in that regard, easier to slip through.That was point of so many pages by it's authors.I have described many times what the law does based on reading the law, reading the analysis of those far more experienced than I and looking at the real world results thus far from the rising premiums due to expenses rising caused by the Unaffordable Care Act's taxes and regulations.That is just basic economics, understanding the costs get passed along down the chain.

Yes Yes, lets ask about a part of a law I read in 210 after it was passed.

You said you knew it perfectly, you have demonstrated that your claim is false.

A 2,000 plus page law by the way

Sounds complicated, I thought you said it wasn't complicated.
Plus of course that doesn't even go near the many many thousands of other pages in other documents which are directly referenced and/or amended by the 2000+ page document.
It certainly does make it look like it was a rather silly claim you made, and implies it was a rather sillier attempt to stand by that claim after it clearly fell to pieces round your feet.

it's personal for you

Not at all, the individual is irrelevant, the issue lies in the claims being made, or the lies as the case may be

you never prove your point.

Sorry but the examples prove that the point is made and very easily made.
Your claims were ludicrous and obviously ludicrous, as a legal "expert" you should understand the importance of words you choose to utilise.

I offer points that are accepted fact much of the time.

No, you offer opinion that you accept as fact, that is not the same thing at all.

Face it bubbles your problem on this can be very quickly and accurately summarised in a way that is undeniably true.
#1 you claimed knowledge of a document(perfect knowledge no less) which you clearly lack knowledge of
#2 you claimed a very lengthy and very complex set of legal documentation was not complicated.

Your fail was obvious, your attempt to stick by your fail has made it an epic fail. It really is that simple(unlike the legislation)

[Onkel Neal]

Like I've said many times, we already have "free healthcare" in the States. Obamacare at least makes an attempt to get the luxurious poor to pay a share of the cost.

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Like I've said many times, we already have "free healthcare" in the States. Obamacare at least makes an attempt to get the luxurious poor to pay a share of the cost.

That's the thing, insurance or no insurance it simply not something you can opt out of.
Sure you can choose not to go see a doctor, you can choose not to visit a hospital, but if you get scraped up off the road and taken to the emergency room you have no choice, they have to treat you and someone has to pay.
ACA is a mess, but it is an improvement in the mess that preceeded it.
Contrary to the Clarksonesque "greatest in the world" claim Webster made it only tops the list on expense, and while large number of people do travel to the US for treatment it is dwarfed by the numbers of Americans travelling to other countries for treatment(often to third world countries).

[Catfish]

It is just called demographic change.
Former wars saw to that ..

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

That's the thing, insurance or no insurance it simply not something you can opt out of.
Sure you can choose not to go see a doctor, you can choose not to visit a hospital, but if you get scraped up off the road and taken to the emergency room you have no choice, they have to treat you and someone has to pay.
ACA is a mess, but it is an improvement in the mess that preceeded it.
Contrary to the Clarksonesque "greatest in the world" claim Webster made it only tops the list on expense, and while large number of people do travel to the US for treatment it is dwarfed by the numbers of Americans travelling to other countries for treatment(often to third world countries).

Really, our healthcare system prior to ACA was fine. People complained because a minority was not covered but the quality was top notch.Some things needed to be fixed such as skyrocketing premium costs, dropping for conditions etc but overall, top notch.That is why so many from other countries come here or used to. Now, we will end up with substandard care.where will everyone go for top notch care? Sad as it is, I cant wait for the rationing stories to come out and the outrage from the idiots in the public.A 85 year old under an obamaplan denied a procedure, these headlines are coming.Palin did a disservice calling them death panels, it sounded hyperbolic but from what I understand there will be or is an advisory board. Sad as it is, it is coming.