Conspiracies, sheeple, the universe and everything

[Mittelwaechter]

@ Dowly

CIT - NSA - Darius Prather ~42:00 speaks of pivoting up too.

Mr Turcios ~ 22:30 said the plane "lift up a little bit, to get over - to the side of the bridge". (the northern side of the bridge - north of the light poles)
To get over the road - you are right. If you lift an airliner at 500 knots (FDR!) a little bit over the road, how do you bring it down again to hit the Pentagon at ground level?
You have ~0.89 seconds to lift and down it again. (just a rough estimation!)

_____

Gopher06 circled the Pentagon, then headed west - back where he came from. Time enough for all to watch him over the Pentagon at 2000 feet.

My airliner was "bunking right" - went over the roof - and disappeared. Probably climbing and heading south - Roberts Roosevelt saw the Jet over the southern parking lot.
That's the airport direction. Take offs were banned at Reagan Airport, but no landings. Maybe my stunt pilot simply hopped over the I 395 and landed there.
It would be not unusual to see an airliner coming this way, rather low, "passing" the Pentagon, flying over the Interstate and landing at Reagan National Airport.

Just curious - I simply explained why my jetliner wasn't painted the AA colours on page 8.
But I didn't find a claim it wasn't. Why did Ryan Mackey finally list this? Obviously someone claimed that somewhere.

From surfin 'one of Steve's links:

An aircraft at Elgin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted into a drone [a remotely controlled unmanned aircraft.] Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida.

I guess it's from the Northwood paper (should have noted it)

Passengers would be in the plot this way, using aliases. The relatives situation still unclear to me.

Concerning the listed, written witness' claims:

William Lagasse:

Sgt. William Lagasse, a Pentagon police dog handler, the son of an aviation instructor, was filling up his patrol car at a gas station near the Pentagon when he noticed a jet fly in low. He watched as the plane plowed into the Pentagon. Initially, he thought the plane was about to drop on top of him -- it was that close. Lagasse knew something was wrong. The 757's flaps were not deployed and the landing gear was retracted.

No mention of his statement the Jetliner was north of CITGO here. With CIT he didn't claim to see the liner hitting the Pentagon.

Terry Morin:

I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking about at that moment, but I started to hear an increasingly loud rumbling behind me and to my left. As I turned to my left, I immediately realized the noise was bouncing off the 4-story structure that was Wing 5. One to two seconds later the airliner came into my field of view. By that time the noise was absolutely deafening. ... I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn’t be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities. Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled. As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110). As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon.

His CIT claim was totally different. But he was not filmed and I have no impression of his credibility.

These written reports of witnesses are highly doubtable.
CIT did a pretty good job in filming them and questioning critically.
Would be great to have the same footage from witnesses backing the official report.

The Cementary workers were reliable, not sure about the last one.
The Pentagon Police Officers too, as the CITGO worker.
Sean Boger from the heliport stated the incoming airliner definitively on the CITGO north either.

If you consider these witnesses to be right, (why should they lie?) - it is impossible the airliner hit the light poles. And it could not have hit the Pentagon, because the internal damage followed the CITGO south path and the light poles. The cab drivers story isn't matching either. The FDR reads the cockpit cabin door wasn't opened during the whole flight. How did Hanjour got behind the controls? Especially when he wasn't on the passanger list, not at the check in and 99% not on the plane? Did he beam himself into the plane and into the cockpit?
EDIT: And the radar operators stated, the 270° right turn to approach the Pentagon from the west was perfect and jet fighter like. Hanjour couldn't even handle a Cessna 176.

I doubt the official report on the Pentagon attack. After doing my research even more.

[Takeda Shingen]

Holy crap, this is still going on? Has there been an X-Files marathon on recently or something?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Holy crap, this is still going on? Has there been an X-Files marathon on recently or something?

The truth is out there...but not in here...

[Onkel Neal]

[Dowly]

@Mittelwaechter

The eyewitness interviews in NSA are highly edited and as such no better than written testimonies.
I already showed you how they edited out Mr. Turcios stating that the plane
struck the Pentagon.

Here's another from CIT's older video "PentaCon", with extended interviews.


41:27 - William Lagasse: "[..]yawed substantially before it hit the building."

Again, that bit is edited out from NSA, quite understandably as it would show
that even their own eyewitnesses think/saw the plane hit the Pentagon.

EDIT: And the radar operators stated, the 270° right turn to approach the Pentagon from the west was perfect and jet fighter like.

They were describing how the jet was flying, don't take it so literally.

"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in
the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a
military plane," says O'Brien. "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's
unsafe."

Hanjour couldn't even handle a Cessna 176.

In 2000, that is. He continued to train after that. He also had both private and
commercial licenses.
No one has claimed he was a great pilot, but pilot enough to crash the plane.

EDIT: Oh and here's a thread you might find interesting:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=87823

It's "Lyte Trip" aka Craig Ranke from CIT challenging Mark Roberts' witness list
regarding Pentagon and pretty much getting his butt handed to him.

Have fun!

[Safe-Keeper]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

@ Dowly

CIT - NSA - Darius Prather ~42:00 speaks of pivoting up too.

Mr Turcios ~ 22:30 said the plane "lift up a little bit, to get over - to the side of the bridge". (the northern side of the bridge - north of the light poles)
To get over the road - you are right. If you lift an airliner at 500 knots (FDR!) a little bit over the road, how do you bring it down again to hit the Pentagon at ground level?
You have ~0.89 seconds to lift and down it again. (just a rough estimation!)

Do you have me on ignore?

My airliner was "bunking right" - went over the roof - and disappeared. Probably climbing and heading south - Roberts Roosevelt saw the Jet over the southern parking lot.
That's the airport direction. Take offs were banned at Reagan Airport, but no landings. Maybe my stunt pilot simply hopped over the I 395 and landed there.
It would be not unusual to see an airliner coming this way, rather low, "passing" the Pentagon, flying over the Interstate and landing at Reagan National Airport.

Maybe, or perhaps it was Santa and his reindeer. Again, so what?

An aircraft at Elgin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate... :words:

See above. 9/11 happened 12 years ago today. Are you truthers ever going to come up with anything but "durr, this looks odd from my layman point of view" and wild speculations such as "hurr, maybe it was a stuntman"?

I guess it's from the Northwood paper (should have noted it)

We don't care. Stop guessing and give us facts.

Passengers would be in the plot this way, using aliases. The relatives situation still unclear to me.

Then do your bloody research already. You've had over a decade.

These written reports of witnesses are highly doubtable.

Because?

If you consider these witnesses to be right, (why should they lie?)

You're a conspiracy theorist and you simultaneously don't believe in people lying?

Seriously, though, eyewitness testimony is known to be ridiculously inaccurate.

- it is impossible the airliner hit the light poles. And it could not have hit the Pentagon, because the internal damage followed the CITGO south path and the light poles.

Evidence?!

The cab drivers story isn't matching either.

Oh. How funny. Perhaps this means you shouldn't cherry-pick eyewitness testimony and take it as gospel after all.

The FDR reads the cockpit cabin door wasn't opened during the whole flight. How did Hanjour got behind the controls? Especially when he wasn't on the passanger list, not at the check in and 99% not on the plane? Did he beam himself into the plane and into the cockpit?

Sigh.

EDIT: And the radar operators stated, the 270° right turn to approach the Pentagon from the west was perfect and jet fighter like.

I can't believe CTers consider this so important. Yes, the radar operator noted that the 757 performed a maneuver 757s typically do not perform, and thus thought it was a jet or something else that typically moves that way.

So what? Do you have a point of some kind? Is it supposed to be impressive that Hanjour managed to botch his approach so badly that he had to make this bizarre and incredibly risky maneuver to line up with his target?

I think the strawman the CTers are trying to construct is that flying the 757 in a manner that would fool an ATC into thinking it was a jet fighter would require some kind of expert skill. Is this what you're trying to argue? If yes, would you care to back this idea up with facts of some kind?

Edit: oh, and can you give me a source that the ATC used the words "perfect" and "jet fighter like" in the first place?

Hanjour couldn't even handle a Cessna 176.

He couldn't handle a 757 either. Had he known what he was doing, he would have just lined up the Pentagon when it was still miles away and just done a straight, level approach. He wouldn't have clipped light posts, he wouldn't have nearly overshot the target, and he probably wouldn't have hit a side of the Pentagon that was not in use.

Again, what's your point?

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Holy crap, this is still going on? Has there been an X-Files marathon on recently or something?

Consider that the Kennedy, Rosswell and Lunar Landing CTs are still alive decades later. The 9/11 CTers are dwindling, but will probably never go away completely.

[Oberon]

Let's just give it a break for one day, eh lads?

No matter if the planes were empty, full or drones, people still died on this day, so let's just give it a rest for today and carry on again tomorrow.

In the meantime, watch this, there's no commentary, no theories, just footage and the geniune reactions of those who saw what unfolded that day.

So watch, and remember what you were doing that day, remember how you felt as you watched it take place, and reflect.

[mapuc]

Ain't that just funny. If a eyewitness testimony doesn't fit into my little world of belief they are not trustworthy.


Markus

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

If you consider these witnesses to be right, (why should they lie?)

Now I know you are not serious.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

an airliner at 500 knots (FDR!)

Pentagon at ground level?

circled the Pentagon

flying over the Interstate and landing at Reagan National Airport

The actual registered aircraft would be converted into a drone

Sgt. William Lagasse, a Pentagon police dog handler, the son of an aviation instructor,

No mention of his statement the Jetliner was north of CITGO here. With CIT he didn't claim to see the liner hitting the Pentagon.

Terry Morin:

I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking about at that moment,


Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine

As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw

impression of his credibility.

These written reports of witnesses are highly doubtable.

The Cementary workers were reliable, not sure about

the light poles. And it could not have hit the Pentagon, because the

cockpit cabin door wasn't

even handle a Cessna 176.

I doubt the official report on the Pentagon attack. After doing my research even more.

Looks like you're trying to find any sense in that **** dude. Don't be as dumb as everyone else.

Watch and make some fun instead !

[soopaman2]

So this is the tinfoil hat thread?

may I share my syrian theory.

This is a manufactured war to feed the military industrial complex, because it is drying out for them, the 1k plus an hour pay days are becoming less, and Dick Cheneys Xe merc company (formerly known as Blackwater) is running low on brown skins to kill for fun and profit.

(yeah NSA, I SAID IT, COME GET ME)

Shove Prism up your bunghole.

I must say I am disappointed the moderators or admin didn't shut this pile of lunatic nonsense down for 24hrs yesterday.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

I must say I am disappointed the moderators or admin didn't shut this pile of lunatic nonsense down for 24hrs yesterday.

Keep it open i say.

That way all this clap trap and nonsense hopefully doesn't stain any other threads (too much) and stays in 1 central place.

Here.

Any sane person will stay away.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Just found this.

Have fun, Truthers


Six really stupid 9/11 conspiracies debunked in about six seconds:



SOURCE

Such articles just serve as more ammunition for the truthers as they contain heaps
of errors, that one is no exception.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Such articles just serve as more ammunition for the truthers as they contain heaps
of errors, that one is no exception.

Edited out.

I concur.

Thought it might have been fun.