Conspiracies, sheeple, the universe and everything

[Mittelwaechter]

Come on gents.

If you don't start to doubt after this clip, you will never start to doubt.
Then there is never any evidence possible, because you deny everything.
Then I have the proof you simply fall back to mainstream, into your comfort zone.

Watch it!

And then tell me honestly there is no justification to doubt.

[eddie]

Nope, I don't believe it!!

Originally Posted by eddie

Nope, I don't believe it!!

But do you believe in Hugo Artenis Solon Saturnicus Reginald Arthur Rune?
He has all the answers

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

Come on gents.

Nope...I think it is fast approaching the time you "Come on"

Stop trolling...if you'd be so kind.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

^^ This is your high quality debunking?




Please folks: watch this clip, it's worth it:



These people interview witnesses of the Pentagon event.
It is well done and I guess no one aboard can ask for more evidence from privat investigators.

I'm not going to touch all of the video as a lot of it is just repeating the already debunked material.
But there are few less "popular" things in it I'd like to get to.

1. Robert Balsamo's G-force calculations.
Are wrong. See here: http://www.cesura17.net/~will/Epheme.../balsamo2.html

2. Edward Paik's eyewitness statement.
He seems to be unsure of the flight path. He says the plane clipped the tower you see on the right
side in the video. That would put the flight path way to the south side of Navy Annex.

In 2010 interview, he says he was inside when the plane flew past.

Ed Paik: [Ed is standing in front of the counter] “Shinki sitting over there, I’m standing up here. We’d been talking about the Twin Towers. And then we heard about- the big sound. And then I just look out like this [bends over, ducking and turning head to look out the front window] and then aircraft- I can hear- black, big wing as it goes- heading to that way [motions with arm, sweeping from West to East, roughly parallel to Columbia Pike]
Erik Larson: “So- were you outside when it happened?”
Ed: “After that- I saw it, and after that I go out.”
Erik: “So, you were inside when the plane flew over.”
Ed: “Yeah- flew this way.” [indicates path with his hand, West to East, parallel to Columbia Pike, again]
Erik: “OK. But you were looking outside the window.”
Ed: [bends head down, and points outside] “Looking outside here.”

Source:

Also, in another interview from 2006, conducted by "truthers" I might add, he says he was inside:


And lastly, a quote from Clark Ranke, founder of CitizenInvestigationTeam (you know, the makers of the video you posted):

You can't use a witness to extrapolate what you want regarding the placement of the plane in an area that they would not even be able to witness from their location! That is spin and is deceptive.

So, if Ed Paik was inside, as he says he was in 2 out of 3 interviews, then how could he be a reliable eyewitness when it comes to figuring out the flight path of Flight 77?


I might do a few more points later on, not that it'll convince you of anything.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

Come on gents.

If you don't start to doubt after this clip, you will never start to doubt.
Then there is never any evidence possible, because you deny everything.
Then I have the proof you simply fall back to mainstream, into your comfort zone.

Watch it!

And then tell me honestly there is no justification to doubt.

Your problem is you are asking the wrong questions.

You say you are not a truther . Neither am I, but if I was, my first question concerning 9/11 would be this. If some one wanted to attack the U.S. as it happened on 11/11/01 why would they go to these incredible lengths to make it look like three airliners crashed into their targets. You know, say a missile or a strange pod under a commercial airliner or a remote controlled airliner/ military plane, etc. All these scenarios lead to more unanswerable questions. The answer of course is that to accomplish this you would actually hijack said planes and crash them into their targets. The evidence that this happened is pretty convincing. The possibility that something else happened requires a massive covert operation and cover-up that would be impossible to keep undiscovered.

Like I said, you're asking the wrong questions.

[Catfish]

@Ucrank - right.

So why do you think did they crash the planes into the WTC, and the Pentagon. What about the story before that?

Yes i know, all muslims hate 'us', they want to overtake the world and they are hiding between every curtain to kill us.

That rubbish aside:
Where exactly does that hate come from?
Why did they turn around and began to suddenly hate us, just of all after this successful joint venture between some resistance fighters and the West, in Afghanistan?

I think Fox says it all.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

I think Fox says it all.

I've been waiting for that to arrive here...

[Mittelwaechter]

Am I entitled to answer or would it be considered as trolling again?
I don't want to annoy you.

I did already some reseach on the problem ( it made me courious now) and I was reading some rather good debunk on that either.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So why do you think did they crash the planes into the WTC, and the Pentagon. What about the story before that?

What we do know is that certain groups of Muslims in the world have undertaken a jihadist war on America and its allies. Bin Laden is on record declaring this war. There have been dozens of attacks with Al-Qaeda and other groups claiming responsibility. Bin Laden is also on record as to why. Infidel boots on the ground in the holy land. This is pretty common knowledge, but of course it could all be a massive CIA/Zionist/Illuminati plot. Anything is possible I guess. All it takes is a little mistrust, a healthy dose of paranoia and a good imagination. I'm a sceptic. The thing about being a sceptic is you have to question everything and do some honest research. If you enter into this little adventure with previously held ideas about government plots and a NWO you are at a disadvantage. You are easy prey. So much for the comfort zone.

Where exactly does that hate come from?
Why did they turn around and began to suddenly hate us, just of all after this successful joint venture between some resistance fighters and the West, in Afghanistan?

I assume you are referring to the Mujahideen. These resistance fighters/warlords were used by the U.S. to fight a proxy war with their superpower rival in the 1980's in Afghanistan. Both sides got what they wanted. I doubt if either side believed the relationship would last forever. Who gets the dog?

[Subnuts]

Conspiracy HUSSEIN Theory.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

Am I entitled to answer or would it be considered as trolling again?
I don't want to annoy you.

I did already some reseach on the problem ( it made me courious now) and I was reading some rather good debunk on that either.

Your entitled to post whatever you wish, as is anyone in the community but you should also be prepared to be able to backup any claims you make.

Honestly, debating is really that simple.

Oh and btw, nobody annoys me here, I simply try to ensure the forum runs within the guidelines and rules as set out by the forum owner.

[Mittelwaechter]

Ok.

Let me start with Mr Paik, as I didn't do any G-force calculations yet.

He seems to be Asian. I have some experience with Asians working for me to claim the following:
(I keep it simple and therefore general - so it may sound a bit arrogant, but that is not my intention at all. As a matter of fact I generally like their company.)
They want to attract an interlocutor. They try to avoid a "No", a negative response or statement answering a question.
They listen carefully and try to interpret the intention of a question to support the intention.
If you are not very careful to avoid any intentional question, they will tell you what they think you want to hear.

So asking "did the plane go this way?" - showing a rough direction - they will smile, nod and copy your hand sign, as long as the general direction is true.
And if a second guy asks him directly the same question, but showing a slightly different direction, they will support it either. They'll try to avoid any conflict.

So Mr Paik is certainly a wonderful person, never intentionally stating something not true, but he is slightly unfit as a witness (as long as the questions are not strictly neutral).

Again, I don't want to diss any Asians or state they are all the same.

We can assume the plane was somewhere close to him, but we should NOT consider his claims to be a fact.

Agreed?

[Tchocky]

You have to be kidding.